Carrina

[Ольга]

carina:.... I have no problems understanding people. I have a problem understanding the ethical problems with people. I understand people, I completely understand your points.

How does it make you ethical type? What is the difference between understanding people and ethical problems exactly? What is it you understand - information? That is logic.

this specifically doesn't make me an ethical type. what makes me an ethical type is that I am motivated toward social change, motivated by my need to make my relationships go smoothly, my desire to effect positive social change, as I have stated about a thousand times by now.
[/quote]

It is just a conscious value of yours - it fits well with superego type in general and superego block of model A for LII in particular. Did you rad anything of my theory, for example about superego types? It is very rational preference of social change - but it is general for all 4 types - superego types in particular. It is what Young would call  Superego self- realisation. This makes you strongly Superego-type but does not mean ethical type. If you find difficult to understand ethical problems - that makes you automatically logical type. Please, be specific and explain what ethical problems do you mean?

You don't need to prove anything to me and Malcolm, just carry on honestly and openly ( as you can) answering questions. Don't think bad staff about as if we try to coerce you into something  - this alone makes you soooo logical and LII ( suspicious mind because of troubled ethics). Understand, that we are helping you to see at least something more clearly. Because we see that you need help we are just too kind. Otherwise just based on what you think about me personally anyone else would already let you be in doubt - who cares!
On the other hand if you don't want our help anymore - you are free to go.

[carrina]

carina:.... I have no problems understanding people. I have a problem understanding the ethical problems with people. I understand people, I completely understand your points.

How does it make you ethical type? What is the difference between understanding people and ethical problems exactly? What is it you understand - information? That is logic.

this specifically doesn't make me an ethical type. what makes me an ethical type is that I am motivated toward social change, motivated by my need to make my relationships go smoothly, my desire to effect positive social change, as I have stated about a thousand times by now.

It is just a conscious value of yours - it fits well with superego type in general and superego block of model A for LII in particular. Did you rad anything of my theory, for example about superego types? It is very rational preference of social change - but it is general for all 4 types - superego types in particular. It is what Young would call  Superego self- realisation. This makes you strongly Superego-type but does not mean ethical type. If you find difficult to understand ethical problems - that makes you automatically logical type. Please, be specific and explain what ethical problems do you mean?

You don't need to prove anything to me and Malcolm, just carry on honestly and openly ( as you can) answering questions. Don't think bad staff about as if we try to coerce you into something  - this alone makes you soooo logical and LII ( suspicious mind because of troubled ethics). Understand, that we are helping you to see at least something more clearly. Because we see that you need help we are just too kind. Otherwise just based on what you think about me personally anyone else would already let you be in doubt - who cares!
On the other hand if you don't want our help anymore - you are free to go.
[/quote]

I am burnt out thinking about these things. They make no sense. I am not oparating logically, I am attempting to and I can't do it. thats the thing you aren't getting here. No way in hell I am Ti lead. If you can find a way to prove it then fine but until then I don't have time to entertain it.
I cannot sit here and read all this stuff and understand it applied to reality, my memories do not catalog these things. I will take a break. I cannot pull up one page of socionics literature and understand the writings. It is excruciatingly frusterating to try and force myself to do it. I just don't understand the logic. I don't know why but let me explain:
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Extraversion_and_introversion

that page for example makes no flippin  sense to me. I can relate to things in both categories but I just am looking at it, forgetting what I am reading, getting bored, trying to remember how I act, etc. I just can't apply it to real life. I don't like the vocabulary that is used. I just don't get it
Maybe I am getting too frusterated at this point. I'm not going to give up but I will take a break for now. AND STOP SAYING I AM LII.. PLEASE.. I AM NOT LII.

[Ольга]

Carrina, you are hard work  Just like my clever husband who understands so many things but  can be confused  by something very simple like counting.
Break is good. I would suggest you forget about your type for a while and just start learn typing. By typing others you will better understand yourself after a while. Honestly. I would suggest to begin studying my method of typing. I am absolutely positive that you will be a very smart student. You do need to change the direction and come to understand your type from a different way in relating to it.
We do have from time to time people who wishes to be typed. You would need to read a bit of theory, ask questions if you don't understand and then apply your knowledge in practice. 

[carrina]

Okay, Olga, thank you for the advice. would you consider IEE please?

At this point I am fairly certain that Fi is in my conscious ring and dominates much of my behaviour.. but there is that small bit of uncertainty. I am also fairly certain that I am not a Ti lead. Please take that into consideration.

[Ольга]

I am glad you are getting closer to What we think about you. It is surely a progress that you see yourself  as an intuitive type. If you decide that you need help just go back to our discussion and think about some questions which you did not provide the answers. I asked them that you think about the answers and if you find the answers  - it may help you to see something else.
May be it is a good idea to talk to Elena as she is ESFJ. She should  see are you logical or ethical type if you ask her to type you by Skype video link.

[carrina]

I am glad you are getting closer to What we think about you. It is surely a progress that you see yourself  as an intuitive type. If you decide that you need help just go back to our discussion and think about some questions which you did not provide the answers. I asked them that you think about the answers and if you find the answers  - it may help you to see something else.
May be it is a good idea to talk to Elena as she is ESFJ. She should  see are you logical or ethical type if you ask her to type you by Skype video link.

I have talked to elena and ben (the LII) together and they both think I am FiSe NiTe. I don't think I am Fe POLR but I could be.

[Mudjumps]

I racked my brains to think of an alternative TIM if you were not LII and I thought of IEE because it makes some sense in terms of model A. I then watched your video and sort of dismissed the idea because I didn't think you looked like one. Understanding model a is the only real way to be sure though. If you narrow it down to 2 then you can focus on the big differences. LIIs and IEE deal with ti and fi very differently. You mentioned in your video that you are annoyed when people wont agree with you about the cup being orange. It seems you were talking about ti then (an agreement on reality) I think it's worth thinking about what you meant.

[carrina]

I racked my brains to think of an alternative TIM if you were not LII and I thought of IEE because it makes some sense in terms of model A. I then watched your video and sort of dismissed the idea because I didn't think you looked like one. Understanding model a is the only real way to be sure though. If you narrow it down to 2 then you can focus on the big differences. LIIs and IEE deal with ti and fi very differently. You mentioned in your video that you are annoyed when people wont agree with you about the cup being orange. It seems you were talking about ti then (an agreement on reality) I think it's worth thinking about what you meant.

What I was talking about with the cup is something quite different. Its about people not being direct or answering a question directly. Its about them talking about a zillion things except the point. More like a problem with people not knowing how to use Te or Ni. This is a common problem I have with being frustrated with the SEI; cannot answer a questions directly. If you don't know, say you don't know because I have more interesting things to talk about then someones mental process of elimination. The end result is much more important.
If I ask someone "do you know where... is" and every single time say, yesterday I may have seen it downstairs somewhere.. even if it is a frequently used item.. Its just annoying when people are so unspecific. I try to be reasonable and I am because I don't show my annoyance here but this is one thing that gets on my nerves when I am trying to get something done. At work when you ask a question like "how many boxes?" and someone says, I don't know, like maybe 2.. If you don't know say "I don't know" I don't think this is a Ti thing, this is like a demand for Te, and there being no Te from that person.

[carrina]

I am not an LII.

[carrina]

Mudjumps and Olga, I am going to tell you which functions I relate to and which placement in Model A. Most I am not sure about.
I will say that Ti is one of my lowest scoring IM's and in people I don't necessarily love it. Please keep that in mind.
I am relating here specifically to the descriptions in wikisocion. If you have your own I wouldn't mind looking at them because the ones here seem a bit lacking and in some ways atleast slightly incorrect for some types. http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Introverted_intuition
I understand that these are random//they are just possiblities as I read this particular article.
Ne in sq 1, sq 3
Ni sq 1, sq 5,
Te suare 2, sq 5, 6,
Ti sq 4, 8
Se, 4, 5,
Si, 4, 5, 7th, 8th
Fe, 4, 8
Fi  2, 3

I'm sorry for such a tangled mess here. :/

[carrina]

omg!! lol. warning this isnt censored https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC-e5vs6NeY

[Mudjumps]

What do you think about Ne in the ego block anyway? You have tried out nearly every possible Type of information metabolism which is pretty much what Ne is about.

[carrina]

What do you think about Ne in the ego block anyway? You have tried out nearly every possible Type of information metabolism which is pretty much what Ne is about.

I think yes...? I don't exactly know how it manifests.
I really am thinking irrational.

[Ольга]

Well....Carina, it is a massive progression from ESI to ILE, congratulations! You come closer and closer to LII even though you believe you are not the one. The difference between ILE and LII is extraversion and irrationality. Take a good description of both dichotomies, post  the link here in turn and give your arguments for being an irrational and extraverted type. BUT don't go into details here with colouring the text - NO! Do your homework on your computer and here just bullet point arguments - short and concrete. When you make your argument think about real life illustration of you day to day behaviour - don't write it yet. Only write if we ask you a question.

[carrina]

I am not ILE or LII. I never said I was an ILE>