Messages

1

Драйзер - ESI / Re: Carrina

« on: July 10, 2014, 12:48:39 AM »

I guess experience counts quite a lot. If you practice typing soon you can see how people fit in without really thinking about model a or dichotomies.... Just the recurring patterns in how they look and behave and what you've seen before. To start with its hard because you don't even have 16 examples from real life to compare with. Maybe you can take a different angle by thinking about who you strongly relate to .... Celebrities friends or role models. If you could be someone else who would it be you could make a list....

I'll do that.

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Драйзер - ESI / Re: Carrina

« on: July 09, 2014, 05:09:55 PM »

I'm not going to continue this if you keep refusing to take me seriously. Thus far I have explained in every conversation that I am not an LII. I have told you many times that I am not going to entertain the idea any further.

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Драйзер - ESI / Re: Carrina

« on: July 09, 2014, 05:04:22 PM »

I am not ILE or LII. I never said I was an ILE>

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Драйзер - ESI / Re: Carrina

« on: July 07, 2014, 08:03:54 PM »

What do you think about Ne in the ego block anyway? You have tried out nearly every possible Type of information metabolism which is pretty much what Ne is about.

I think yes...? I don't exactly know how it manifests.
I really am thinking irrational.

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Драйзер - ESI / Re: Carrina

« on: July 07, 2014, 03:28:29 AM »

omg!! lol. warning this isnt censored https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC-e5vs6NeY

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Драйзер - ESI / Re: Carrina

« on: July 07, 2014, 02:20:23 AM »

Mudjumps and Olga, I am going to tell you which functions I relate to and which placement in Model A. Most I am not sure about.
I will say that Ti is one of my lowest scoring IM's and in people I don't necessarily love it. Please keep that in mind.
I am relating here specifically to the descriptions in wikisocion. If you have your own I wouldn't mind looking at them because the ones here seem a bit lacking and in some ways atleast slightly incorrect for some types. http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Introverted_intuition
I understand that these are random//they are just possiblities as I read this particular article.
Ne in sq 1, sq 3
Ni sq 1, sq 5,
Te suare 2, sq 5, 6,
Ti sq 4, 8
Se, 4, 5,
Si, 4, 5, 7th, 8th
Fe, 4, 8
Fi  2, 3

I'm sorry for such a tangled mess here. :/

7

Драйзер - ESI / Re: Carrina

« on: July 07, 2014, 01:17:32 AM »

I am not an LII.

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Драйзер - ESI / Re: Carrina

« on: July 07, 2014, 01:07:02 AM »

I racked my brains to think of an alternative TIM if you were not LII and I thought of IEE because it makes some sense in terms of model A. I then watched your video and sort of dismissed the idea because I didn't think you looked like one. Understanding model a is the only real way to be sure though. If you narrow it down to 2 then you can focus on the big differences. LIIs and IEE deal with ti and fi very differently. You mentioned in your video that you are annoyed when people wont agree with you about the cup being orange. It seems you were talking about ti then (an agreement on reality) I think it's worth thinking about what you meant.

What I was talking about with the cup is something quite different. Its about people not being direct or answering a question directly. Its about them talking about a zillion things except the point. More like a problem with people not knowing how to use Te or Ni. This is a common problem I have with being frustrated with the SEI; cannot answer a questions directly. If you don't know, say you don't know because I have more interesting things to talk about then someones mental process of elimination. The end result is much more important.
If I ask someone "do you know where... is" and every single time say, yesterday I may have seen it downstairs somewhere.. even if it is a frequently used item.. Its just annoying when people are so unspecific. I try to be reasonable and I am because I don't show my annoyance here but this is one thing that gets on my nerves when I am trying to get something done. At work when you ask a question like "how many boxes?" and someone says, I don't know, like maybe 2.. If you don't know say "I don't know" I don't think this is a Ti thing, this is like a demand for Te, and there being no Te from that person.

9

Драйзер - ESI / Re: Carrina

« on: July 06, 2014, 08:11:13 PM »

I am glad you are getting closer to What we think about you. It is surely a progress that you see yourself  as an intuitive type. If you decide that you need help just go back to our discussion and think about some questions which you did not provide the answers. I asked them that you think about the answers and if you find the answers  - it may help you to see something else.
May be it is a good idea to talk to Elena as she is ESFJ. She should  see are you logical or ethical type if you ask her to type you by Skype video link.

I have talked to elena and ben (the LII) together and they both think I am FiSe NiTe. I don't think I am Fe POLR but I could be.

10

Драйзер - ESI / Re: Carrina

« on: July 06, 2014, 04:29:31 PM »

Okay, Olga, thank you for the advice. would you consider IEE please?

At this point I am fairly certain that Fi is in my conscious ring and dominates much of my behaviour.. but there is that small bit of uncertainty. I am also fairly certain that I am not a Ti lead. Please take that into consideration.

11

Драйзер - ESI / Re: Carrina

« on: July 03, 2014, 03:17:20 PM »

carina:.... I have no problems understanding people. I have a problem understanding the ethical problems with people. I understand people, I completely understand your points.

How does it make you ethical type? What is the difference between understanding people and ethical problems exactly? What is it you understand - information? That is logic.

this specifically doesn't make me an ethical type. what makes me an ethical type is that I am motivated toward social change, motivated by my need to make my relationships go smoothly, my desire to effect positive social change, as I have stated about a thousand times by now.

It is just a conscious value of yours - it fits well with superego type in general and superego block of model A for LII in particular. Did you rad anything of my theory, for example about superego types? It is very rational preference of social change - but it is general for all 4 types - superego types in particular. It is what Young would call  Superego self- realisation. This makes you strongly Superego-type but does not mean ethical type. If you find difficult to understand ethical problems - that makes you automatically logical type. Please, be specific and explain what ethical problems do you mean?

You don't need to prove anything to me and Malcolm, just carry on honestly and openly ( as you can) answering questions. Don't think bad staff about as if we try to coerce you into something  - this alone makes you soooo logical and LII ( suspicious mind because of troubled ethics). Understand, that we are helping you to see at least something more clearly. Because we see that you need help we are just too kind. Otherwise just based on what you think about me personally anyone else would already let you be in doubt - who cares!
On the other hand if you don't want our help anymore - you are free to go.
[/quote]

I am burnt out thinking about these things. They make no sense. I am not oparating logically, I am attempting to and I can't do it. thats the thing you aren't getting here. No way in hell I am Ti lead. If you can find a way to prove it then fine but until then I don't have time to entertain it.
I cannot sit here and read all this stuff and understand it applied to reality, my memories do not catalog these things. I will take a break. I cannot pull up one page of socionics literature and understand the writings. It is excruciatingly frusterating to try and force myself to do it. I just don't understand the logic. I don't know why but let me explain:
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Extraversion_and_introversion

that page for example makes no flippin  sense to me. I can relate to things in both categories but I just am looking at it, forgetting what I am reading, getting bored, trying to remember how I act, etc. I just can't apply it to real life. I don't like the vocabulary that is used. I just don't get it
Maybe I am getting too frusterated at this point. I'm not going to give up but I will take a break for now. AND STOP SAYING I AM LII.. PLEASE.. I AM NOT LII.

12

Драйзер - ESI / Re: Carrina

« on: July 03, 2014, 05:01:33 AM »

My biggest issue is this. Ti is one of my least favorite things. I am not a Ti lead. I will not waste my time entertaing this any more. I am going to blow up if you keep trying to push that as a fact when I know it isn't. I would sooner say that I am Ti POLR then Ti lead. I am baffled..

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Драйзер - ESI / Re: Carrina

« on: July 03, 2014, 04:58:49 AM »

carina:.... I have no problems understanding people. I have a problem understanding the ethical problems with people. I understand people, I completely understand your points.

How does it make you ethical type? What is the difference between understanding people and ethical problems exactly? What is it you understand - information? That is logic.
[/quote]
this specifically doesn't make me an ethical type. what makes me an ethical type is that I am motivated toward social change, motivated by my need to make my relationships go smoothly, my desire to effect positive social change, as I have stated about a thousand times by now.

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Драйзер - ESI / Re: Carrina

« on: July 03, 2014, 04:48:41 AM »

Firstly I think you want to have some space to think for yourself right.I have to apply the theory to real life to see if it fits. I don't spontaneously remember everything I think do and say Being told how things are when you can't see the same reasoning doesn't help. I can place myself in this position and see if it is natural, it is not. I don't want to keep going back and forth over and over on the same thing. I noticed you mentioned on WSS that your dad is LSI and that you don't really get on. I'd suggest that the trouble you're having with Olga's approach (you feel that logical rules are being forced on you) is  that it might seem quite close to LSI behaviour (remember Olga is Se creative)I am not finding olga as aggressive. I watched your last video and I remember you saying "some people are too aggressive". You don't have to answer obviously but do you mean your Dad? I have an LSI dad and I find him far too controlling. yes, I mean my dad, and he's not aggressive, he is abusive and a slightly phycopathic individual. that situation is clearly different. As a result I tend to think very carefully before excepting other people's logic and sort of see ti as a potential means of manipulation... I was not as quick to get to LII as Olga but I have no problem in typing you LII Carrina .. I can see you are a smart person and your interest in science My interest in science is SOCIAL CHANGE. I tried to explain that a billion times. alone should be a big hint of being a researcherI failed my chemistry class, Logician still? . Maybe have more of a think about things. If you come to realise that you are not SEE or have some questions you are very welcome to come back...I may very well not be SEE, but I already know for sure that I am not an LII. I am going to continue to type myself until I am comfortable with a typing. I'm not going to sit here everyday begging someone to understand me so that they can help me go no where with my progress.

15

Драйзер - ESI / Re: Carrina

« on: July 02, 2014, 06:22:04 PM »

Carrina, it is a shame that you feel as if I forced anything on you. If I would force my opinion on you, I would do it differently. I would say just that - you don't know much socionics you have and this is a fact. In this thread you mentioned a lot of times that you are not sure you understand right this and that...This is very trueyou just did it again.. Olga, you don't exactly knkow where my weaknesses in socionics lay. . You have very obscure view of dichotomies, you haven't met ESIs in real life but at the same time you are sure that you know better.I no longer believe that I am an ESI. I now know my type. If you know everything better, why did you need a consultancy in a first place? You should be satisfied with typing in Jacks group.I was very unhappy with that typing, it just didn't feel right. Hence why I moved to another professional for assistance.

But this is not the case.  You asked for my opinion and now you are saying that I forced my opinion on you.I have told you that I am not LII or Ti at all. I should know this about myself, you should have listened. This is a joke. What did you exactly expected from me? I cannot say that you are not LII as I see you this way. I cannot see that I am in doubt because I am not. Does it really sound like a forced opinion? When you go to the doctor and he or she will give you his opinion - do you consider it as a forcing as well? May be it is exactly opposite and you have an issue with Se? This could easily explain why you feel that people always mess you and you mind about. If you would be an ethical type you could see the motives of people more clearly and would have less problems in understanding people.I have no problems understanding people. I have a problem understanding the ethical problems with people. I understand people, I completely understand your points. but coming from my own perspective, it would be very wise of you to take what I say of myself as fact. You cannot insist on a lead function that I know I do not have. That is improper practice. I'm sorry that "this is a joke" to you. I had allot of respect for you. You HAVE attempted to coerce me. It is a fact at this point. I tip my hat to you and wish you all the best of you associative socionics.

One last point. I agree with associative socionics. But MY ASSOCIATIONS should not be assumed by you. You have to aske me what MY ASSOCIATIONS are, not tell me what they are, If you continue to do this, you will fail. I am SEE. If you are very serious about ASSOCIATIVE SOCIONICS, you will reevaluate MY ASSOCIATIONS in accordance with SEE. You cannot succeed with using these tactics of IMPOSING UNREAL ASSOCIATIONS on others.

\You may do exactly as you wish. I am offended at my own self, first, for being in a position to speak to you this way. Second, because my respect for you has had to be surpassed so that I can put forth this understanding, and third, that I havent been accepting of your answers, as it is in the slight, disrespectful to you. I am dearly sorry for that, and that we could not agree. I have given you some advice and I hope you will reevaluate your position in the future for your own benefit.