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Author Topic: Carrina  (Read 31320 times)

Offline carrina

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Re: Carrina
« Reply #90 on: June 25, 2014, 08:11:41 PM »
Mudjumps,
I have no idea how to do that. I am driven by the way I feel about things. Thats all I have been trying to explain here. Again, I do understand where Olga is coming from. I also see how it could look like I am driven by logic. I feel I am driven by ethics.

Every song here that I have posted has to do with my emotions. She keeps saying I have a problem with my emotions, I really don't. I am vulnerable, do seek emotional connections with people that I choose to interact with. I express the way I feel about people that I am closer to by being loving and physical, like hugging, looking into someone's eyes, holding hands, putting my head on their neck, so on.

Again, I get where Olga is coming from. I'm going to attempt to validate Olga's typing of me before I reject it. I need clearer directions on how I am supposed to show you what I like. I mean, I really don't know how to pick from the onslaught of materials that are available.

Did you look at the the pictures of people that I instinctively like and don't like? Olga asked me to explain what I do and don't like about these people. I have no idea how to point out the way a person's personality makes me feel. I just like it or I don't like it. Maybe someone can explain to me specifics?

Offline carrina

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Re: Carrina
« Reply #91 on: June 25, 2014, 08:26:20 PM »
Rationals
(Also called shizotymes in early socionics literature)
Tend to plan ahead, make decisions early. yes and no
Are more often rigid and stubborn. yes
Do not like to change their decisions.yes
Tend to finish what they started.no
Usually have stiff movements.yes
Usually more 'authoritarian' leadership style.yes
Low stress tolerance.yes, definately
Irrationals
(Also called cyclotymes in early socionics literature)
Tend to wait and see, more spontaneous.yes
Are more often flexible and tolerant.can be
Change their decisions frequently.sometimes
Tend to start new things without finishing them.yes
Usually have gentle movements.yes and no
Usually more 'democratic' leadership style.sometimes it depends on my mood
High stress tolerance.definately not

Offline Mudjumps

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Re: Carrina
« Reply #92 on: June 25, 2014, 09:46:11 PM »
Hi Carrina. I'm here learning about aesthetics. It's not my profession and I can't validate Olga's typing. The face thing is her own method. Out of my own curiosity I'm keen to have a look at your choices. If you post something other people will also have a look and comment. I don't think you added any film scenes? You can think of a film you enjoyed watching quite a few times when you were younger. Then think of what scene was most striking or memorable. Sometimes it can be quite telling...

Offline carrina

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Re: Carrina
« Reply #93 on: June 25, 2014, 10:53:29 PM »
THINGS i HAVE A PROBLEM WITH

Your primary mode of living is focused internally, where you deal with things rationally and logically. Your secondary mode is external, where you take things in primarily via your intuition.

they live in the world of theoretical possibilities. They see everything in terms of how it could be improved, or what it could be turned into. They live primarily inside their own minds, having the ability to analyze difficult problems, identify patterns, and come up with logical explanations. They seek clarity in everything, and are therefore driven to build knowledge. They are the "absent-minded professors", who highly value intelligence and the ability to apply logic to theories to find solutions. They typically are so strongly driven to turn problems into logical explanations, that they live much of their lives within their own heads, and may not place as much importance or value on the external world. Their natural drive to turn theories into concrete understanding may turn into a feeling of personal responsibility to solve theoretical problems, and help society move towards a higher understanding.

they value knowledge above all else. Their minds are constantly working to generate new theories, or to prove or disprove existing theories. They approach problems and theories with enthusiasm and skepticism, ignoring existing rules and opinions and defining their own approach to the resolution. They seek patterns and logical explanations for anything that interests them. They're usually extremely bright, and able to be objectively critical in their analysis. They love new ideas, and become very excited over abstractions and theories. They love to discuss these concepts with others. They may seem "dreamy" and distant to others, because they spend a lot of time inside their minds musing over theories. They hate to work on routine things - they would much prefer to build complex theoretical solutions, and leave the implementation of the system to others. They are intensely interested in theory, and will put forth tremendous amounts of time and energy into finding a solution to a problem with has piqued their interest.

they do not like to lead or control people. They're very tolerant and flexible in most situations, unless one of their firmly held beliefs has been violated or challenged, in which case they may take a very rigid stance. He is likely to be very shy when it comes to meeting new people. On the other hand, they are very self-confident and gregarious around people they know well, or when discussing theories which they fully understand.

He has no understanding or value for decisions made on the basis of personal subjectivity or feelings. They strive constantly to achieve logical conclusions to problems, and don't understand the importance or relevance of applying subjective emotional considerations to decisions. For this reason, they are usually not in-tune with how people are feeling, and are not naturally well-equiped to meet the emotional needs of others.

He may have a problem with self-aggrandizement and social rebellion, which will interfere with their creative potential. Since their Feeling side is their least developed trait, they may have difficulty giving the warmth and support that is sometimes necessary in intimate relationships. If he doesn't realize the value of attending to other people's feelings, he or she may become overly critical and sarcastic with others. If he is not able to find a place for themself which supports the use of their strongest abilities, they may become generally negative and cynical. If the he has not developed their Sensing side sufficiently, they may become unaware of their environment, and exhibit weakness in performing maintenance-type tasks, such as bill-paying and dressing appropriately.

For the him, it is extremely important that ideas and facts are expressed correctly and succinctly. They are likely to express themselves in what they believe to be absolute truths. Sometimes, their well thought-out understanding of an idea is not easily understandable by others, but he is not naturally likely to tailor the truth so as to explain it in an understandable way to others. The he may be prone to abandoning a project once they have figured it out, moving on to the next thing. It's important that the they place importance on expressing their developed theories in understandable ways. In the end, an amazing discovery means nothing if you are the only person who understands it.

The he is usually very independent, unconventional, and original. They are not likely to place much value on traditional goals such as popularity and security. They usually have complex characters, and may tend to be restless and temperamental. They are strongly ingenious, and have unconventional thought patterns which allows them to analyze ideas in new ways. Consequently, a lot of scientific breakthroughs in the world have been made by him.

He is at his best when he can work on his theories independently. When given an environment which supports his creative genius and possible eccentricity, they can accomplish truly remarkable things. These are the pioneers of new thoughts in our society.


THERE ARE A FEW THINGS MISSING HERE. MY RELATIONSHIPS WITH OTHERS ARE MORE IMPORTANT TO ME THAN ANYTHING.
 I AM ALSO AT HOME IN A VERY FAST PACED ENVIRONMENT. ITS WHERE I WORK THE BEST. ANY OTHER ENVIRONMENT HAS ME FALLING ASLEEP.
I AM STRONGLY DRIVEN BY MY VARIOUS FEELINGS OF WHAT I DESIRE IN THE MOMENT. I AM A VERY INTIMATE AND LOVING PARTNER WITHOUT TRYING VERY HARD. I NOTICE HOW PEOPLE ARE FEELING, I JUST DON'T CARE ABOUT CERTAIN PEOPLE. OTHER PEOPLE I DO.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 02:28:07 AM by carrina »

Offline carrina

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Re: Carrina
« Reply #94 on: June 26, 2014, 01:35:51 AM »
THINGS I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH

ESIs are primarily attuned to the world of their own inner emotional states and emotional reactions to others. They may commonly be introspective and constantly in a state of trying to sort out the way they really feel. ESIs value their own sense of fidelity and life stability, and they may always try to treat others with fairness and decency. However, they often tend to be highly reliant on their attitudes towards others in directing their path through life, which can sometimes lead them down circuitous and complicated pathways and interfere with their moral rectitude. THIS IS VERY TRUE FOR ME

For ESIs, connections with others mark a predominant and over-arching life focus. Though close contacts for ESIs often tend to be sparse, when ESIs find a degree of mutual respect towards others, they can be deeply empathetic, compassionate, and loyal. They may emphasize close connections and mutual understanding with others above all other things.

ESIs' attitudes towards others are commonly characterized by skepticism and distrust, and their overall demeanor may be private, closed, uncommunicative, and individualistic. They may feel as though they can see into the motivations and character of others, and sometimes are instinctively be quick to judge others harshly.
Similarly, they may also have difficulty forgiving others and often react coldly to those with past transgressions, or who they see as immoral or characterologically reprehensible. They may by nature adopt a standoffish, confrontational attitude in lieu of a conciliatory one, which may in fact only serve to aggravate their emotional conflagrations. At the same time, however, they may see their judgmentalism as hypocritical and strive to treat others with reciprocity and fairness rather than preemptive judgments. In this way, their behavior can be an internal conflict, oscillating between the predominance of a curtain of friendliness and a core of distrust. Most commonly, ESIs hold an air of both amicable receptiveness, but also one of penetralia and unapproachability. ALL THIS IS TRUE

Many ESIs are inclined to see themselves as morally immaculate, and to behave as such whenever they can.
They may pride themselves on their emotional sincerity, and when dealing with individuals they respect, they typically try to work out clashes through honest and forthright discussion. However, their sense of principled candor is sometimes marred by the conflicting emotions they experience.

ESIs can also be rather traditional and conservative in their life outlook. They may tend to see others who interfere with the stability of their lifestyle as untrustworthy and flighty.

Extroverted Sensing (Se, Se)

ESIs often have a tendency to be confrontational and may come across as unwavering and strict in their judgments and discipline. They are usually particularly oppositional towards those whom they mistrust or towards characters whose moral fortitude they are inclined to question. They may go out of their way to press judgment, fight for what they believe is ethically sound, or for those emotionally close to them.[/glow]

ESIs may sometimes practice a variant of "tough love," challenging others towards acting in a way they feel is in their best interests. They can often come across as matter-of-fact and demanding in their expectations of others, and may have blunt advice, especially geared towards success in the material world. They are sometimes archetypally pictured as strict disciplinarians. Often, however, they may feel as though they challenge others no harder than they challenge themselves; they are often extensively self-critical and may strive hardest to live up to their own expectations for themselves. ESIs may concern themselves with following the rules or ettiquette for successfully interacting in a formal setting, and with dressing and coming across properly to others. They often have a keen sense of style.

Though ESIs are sometimes inclined to retreat from and avoid others, they at other times are not reticent to initiate contact and engage others intimately. They may become very absorbed and reliant on their emotional connections towards others. They may also at other times be highly proactive and constantly prepared to contact others or push others towards a state of activity.<< THIS SOMETIMES

Super-ego block

Introverted Logic (Ti, Ti)

ESIs may have a tendency to become caught up in justification for their actions, and in matters of theoretical consistency, evaluation of relative importance, and objective decision-making. They commonly see the justification of their actions according to logical and existing scientific principles as important and worthwhile<<SOMETIMES, and may conscientiously wish to behave rationally and sensibly -- though they may have less interest or patience in relating their actions to theoretical material that is overly abstract. However, in fields where the practical applications of their work are based on theoretical, academic, or scientific knowledge (ie, economics, medicine, design, etc) they may feel the importance of understanding the conceptual or theoretical backing behind their actions, and they may become somewhat mired in attempting to make sense of the theoretical structure, often devoting excessive time to understanding the subject, leaving out important details, twisting facts inadvertently, and losing track of their organized arguments.

ESIs usually approach the arena of academia and theory formally, trying to make sense of abstract principles by sequential organization, memorization, and force of will. They may push themselves academically while working inefficiently to the point of wearing themselves out. They are typically more comfortable in situations involving ethical or interpersonal considerations where they can listen to their internal emotional guidance than in dealing with impersonal logical argumentation.

Extroverted Intuition (Ne, Ne)

ESIs often especially dislike uncertainty and have a tendency to vigilantly prepare for any and all extenuating circumstances. They may have difficulty coping with unforeseen changes or with particularly indecisive individuals, instead preferring a lifestyle of stability and continuity -- though many ESIs have developed more adaptive styles for dealing with such situations. They may feel discouraged, confused and lacking in their autonomy if they have to consider and keep track of large range of possible outcomes; instead, they may prefer a more direct and linear synopsis of what is likely to happen.

In general, ESIs prefer solution-oriented, pragmatic advice and insights to abstract or theoretical material. They may have difficulty following or comprehending theoretical or associative tangents with no apparent practical basis. They are often rather straightforward and grounded in nature, and may have little interest or proficiency in dealing with overly conceptual perspectives<<YES . They may respond to many situations with the strategy of hard work and diligence, as opposed to innovative or conceptually novel modes of working.

ESIs can have a tendency to see issues of morals or personal character in black and white. They may often act as though viscerally certain of their moral positions and character judgments, and may be dismissive of attempts to contextualize situations ethically, instead seeing others as clearly responsible for their actions and reprehensible.

Offline carrina

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Re: Carrina
« Reply #95 on: June 26, 2014, 02:21:23 AM »
Hi Carrina. I'm here learning about aesthetics. It's not my profession and I can't validate Olga's typing. The face thing is her own method. Out of my own curiosity I'm keen to have a look at your choices. If you post something other people will also have a look and comment. I don't think you added any film scenes? You can think of a film you enjoyed watching quite a few times when you were younger. Then think of what scene was most striking or memorable. Sometimes it can be quite telling...

This is all I could come up with for now. I was searching for the scene in castaway where tom hanks threw his volleyball named wilson and then rescued him and appologized.

http://youtu.be/sfM64k7Ir1w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dSeYecM6wA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U56CTlGkx8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yElIQDAEtOg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU-imAbZ5G8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rT5fYMfEUc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuQZJHfWf9U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSvFpBOe8eY

one of the best movies of all time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MBp4fEL8CA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv7Ts4v5_Bs
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 02:51:26 AM by carrina »

Offline carrina

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Re: Carrina
« Reply #96 on: June 26, 2014, 03:00:26 AM »
I COULD BE WRONG BUT i AM ASSUMING THAT THIS IS HELPFUL





« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 03:02:59 AM by carrina »

Offline Ольга

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Re: Carrina
« Reply #97 on: June 26, 2014, 09:50:34 AM »
Hi Carrina, It is better not to pay to much attention to profiles because the aspects are not clear cut for type but coincide to a certain degrees and therefore they can be misleading. LIIs in many ways resemble EIIs and I think it is what attracted to you Sensing partners. LIIs make impression on people as good listeners and the are attracted to LIIs, tell them their personal issues and etc.
It is all very natural to LIIs.
Also keep in mind that whatever we discuss now on the level of theory and information will take time for you to realise and to notice in real life. You will slowly gain experience and understanding through practice. It is not like I poined to you something and the next day it became absolutely clear to you. It is a process. :) And it will be slow step by step at a time. Of course if you would start learning my approach to typing this process would go quicker and you would better differentiate the facts. But I am not pushing you as the person need to want to do it in a first place. :)

Difference between MBTI and socionics exist on the theoretical level - they have different models - ways of interpretation - for introverted types in particular. But it has got nothing to do with tests.
All tests the same - dichotomies. The profiles depend on the dichotomies and models and authors perspective - type - it a complex view and profiles can be different from author to author. I will tell you more about it when we talk next time on scype.
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Offline Ольга

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Re: Carrina
« Reply #98 on: June 26, 2014, 10:01:42 AM »
Carrina don't rush with information - don't give to much of it. I understand you want to clear all you questions quick and get quick to the point but quantity of info does not mean quality of understanding. There is a lot in your videos and we shall better discuss them. :)
I will colour red - what you need to pay extra attention as being logical and blue what refers to rationality /irrationality and therefore can be general for ESIs and other types.

Rationality it is rational functions of logic+ ethics as dominant, Irrationality -sensing +intuition as dominant.


Rationals
(Also called shizotymes in early socionics literature)
Tend to plan ahead, make decisions early. yes and no
Are more often rigid and stubborn. yes
Do not like to change their decisions.yes
Tend to finish what they started.no
Usually have stiff movements.yes
Usually more 'authoritarian' leadership style.yes
Low stress tolerance.yes, definately - this is not the right criteria for the rational type.


Irrationals
(Also called cyclotymes in early socionics literature)
Tend to wait and see, more spontaneous  .yes
Are more often flexible and tolerant.can be
Change their decisions frequently.sometimes
Tend to start new things without finishing them.yes
Usually have gentle movements.yes and no
Usually more 'democratic' leadership style.sometimes it depends on my mood
High stress tolerance.definately not

I would say there is more yes than no for rational type. Read type preferences on my site. You don't need to provide the detailed answers but say generally how you feel about preferences and we shall start from your general view (in Russian) : http://socionics4you.com/%d0%be%d0%bf%d0%b8%d1%81%d0%b0%d0%bd%d0%b8%d0%b5-%d0%b4%d0%b8%d1%85%d0%be%d1%82%d0%be%d0%bc%d0%b8%d0%b9/
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 10:08:02 AM by Ольга »
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Offline Ольга

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Re: Carrina
« Reply #99 on: June 26, 2014, 10:21:23 AM »
I don't really like the Fe that much. sorry but types that are seeking Fe and types that often use Fe don't exactly seem real to me. they seem like a waste of time. They are annoying, they also do things that make me want to ignore them.
I do not like much either but it is not the reason to see you as ESI - you need to see it in the context of the full picture of LII in model A, hoe it manifest in behaviour and attitude. For example, I dont like much but it does not bother me that much - I can ignore it easily no matter negative or positive. I can use it sometimes but not in the manner the Fe leading use it. Depending on the combination of dichotomies there will be something similar and different between LII ans ESI. For LII it is suggestive function. That means he can use it in a way as asking for help SOS. He cannot control them and tend to overdo it. His negative Fe- reactions are often inadequate. Who rushes to help him and to channel emotions? Hugo. ESE make magic with his positive emotions and lift thm up, channel them in the right way. LIIs can be at times depressed and gloomy as they don't know how to get from the negative emotions. Hugo acts fast as a first aid.

Esi does not need ESE as he can settle his emotions quick himself - Fe as observing~limited function. No problems in handling and tolerating emotions of others. ESI is good at shutting down any emotions. This does not work that well with LII because once LII decide he wants to show his emotions - he needs to express them fully but not somebody trying to shut him up. He will see it as running away from the problem, changing the subject and this will frustrate him even more.

OK, we looked only at Fe in the models A of LII and ESI.


« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 10:27:16 AM by Ольга »
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Offline Ольга

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Re: Carrina
« Reply #100 on: June 26, 2014, 10:26:38 AM »

The butler scene.

This guy is a comedian and LIIs like light hearted emotions - good for their Superid block of model A - feeling nice emotions Si+Fe, making them feeling comfortable emotionally. It can be also considered as childish, silly and fun - energy of Id compensate serious energy of Superego. Such not overly clever scenes relax mind taking away from thinking over solving problems. Mind of LII routinely is working hard-  lots of thoughts Ti and seeking the right  solutions ne. 
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 10:28:15 AM by Ольга »
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Offline Ольга

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Re: Carrina
« Reply #101 on: June 26, 2014, 10:41:12 AM »
Answer this: A. Does LII like physical impact sports?
B. do they like fast paced environments?
C. do they love to wrestle?
D. do they love to box and practice martial arts?
E. Do they like to argue with people pretending?
F. Do they like adrenaline and extreme sports?

G. Could an LII and an SLE date for 3 years and enjoy mental playing and power games for fun?
H. Would an LII like to be dominated or enjoy testing pain tolerance?

I think the answer to these is no.

Please consider these and tell me what you think.

Why not? People work hard on their vulnerable functions as well. It is not that they are not capable or restricted heavily. There will be difference within LII type as well. It is partly the influence of the environment on the nature of personality and culture. We should not be too rigid.
If Se is presented as competitive sport -that is fine with LII. They are capable of achieving remarkable  results. Ones they focus on something, they can surprise in their willpower and achievements Se-leading types. The only problem is if it is not their routine, profession then they do it only for a certain period of time - as show off and then go back to square one. However people notice that this person has an inner strength and powerful will - if only they want to.

Teasing and playing in Se is very good to LII. He feels secure and understands - it is only a game. In real life situatons when LII is angry it is more negative Fe and verbal than actual.
For example, LII is driving and expresses his emotions freely, shows fingers to the passing drivers who annoys him and etc. But if the other driver will stop and decide to confront him face to face - the reaction of LIIs will be not as brave. Because it is  mainly Fe -reaction. Something stops him and this is his logical thinking and understanding that he is not that good to stand up for himself in fact. Se vulnerable.
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Offline Ольга

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Re: Carrina
« Reply #102 on: June 26, 2014, 10:47:55 AM »
 I really hope Carrina that you will see your type as quick as possible  - this is just my wish )). I try to avoid very long typing as it time consuming and energy. it can be too long if we pay attention to details - it is hard to educate the person to see it with the eyes of an expert. I hope you understand this. I am sure that Malcolm will be happy to talk about music and films and we shall have to come out with the profile for sure - this is the plan. :)

I would suggest the next to talk through Model A for LII and cover the functions which I did not described yet. One important thing the consultancy about the type is in a way that I don't have to teach you. I can just say in a few lines why I see what I see and it is not my problem that the client sees otherwise for a simple reason: the client is not an expert. :) I hope you understand it, Carrina. We need somehow to strike the balance.  ;)

I remember that I said before - I am willing to teach you but this was set in a common sense and mainly in relation to my approach. I will not explain every little detail you don't understand now but I will provide a general line of thought for the option LII. I hope you are OK with that? )
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 10:51:28 AM by Ольга »
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Offline carrina

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Re: Carrina
« Reply #103 on: June 26, 2014, 01:38:07 PM »
All this sounds fine to me Olga. I have been thinking again  about ethics and sensing.
I feel that I apply the right amount of pressure with poeple and objects. Anyway, I think looking into model A is fine. I have already done this a little bit but I would rather be led through it.
Olga, don't assume I didn't understand you. I did. When I apply it to my life, I see your mistakes. I also see how you are able to see Se Polr and Ti lead. Its fine.
Whenever you are ready I will go with it.

Offline carrina

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Re: Carrina
« Reply #104 on: June 26, 2014, 01:48:29 PM »
You should be able to read Fe vs Fi in these pictures of me.
My choices of clothing and colors should also show you some things.