Socionics4you.com
ТПЭ квадры - TPE quadras => Суперэго - типы => Драйзер - ESI => Topic started by: Ольга on June 04, 2014, 07:13:24 PM
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This is the topic for Carrina :)
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music that I like.
System Of A Down - Toxicity (Full Album)
http://youtu.be/Zc_qdo-f6z0 (http://youtu.be/Zc_qdo-f6z0)
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more music that I love. he shows respect and submission toward the elderly woman
Atif Aslam - Lambi Judai - tribute to Reshma
http://youtu.be/hEejj51WJ7s (http://youtu.be/hEejj51WJ7s)
The power from this one is amazing to me
http://socionics4you.com/forum/index.php?topic=527.0 (http://socionics4you.com/forum/index.php?topic=527.0)
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eii iei and esi were my results. will take the test one more time
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pictures that I like
1.reminds me of how society is too rigid and doesn't allow for individuality
2.belief in internal power
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video of me and my child interacting.. nothing serious
http://youtu.be/-ua9MayckTA (http://youtu.be/-ua9MayckTA)
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pictures I hate
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my own drawing. I drew my mom's favorite character for her. I liked it because the rose being held by the scruffly man represented inner beauty along side instinctual ability or carnal instinct
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more pictures I like
1. the rainbow gathering, a bunch of hippies get together. In this picture I was enjoying the atmosphere that I was in. It represents a time in my life that I should be thankful for. also being part of a larger group that doesn't feel the need to conform to the expectations of society.
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I have a very close bond with my kid. we were sleeping outside on the swing one summer night.
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funny because unexpected and stupid
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I love dogs because they are loyal, take on the thought frame of owner, are protective, unintelligent enough like a child, can be innocent. I don't like when people pet my dogs. I would train my dog to attack but I don't trust my skills enough.. I require that my animals act like animals and not people.
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"Uncivilized" is better. there is something beautiful about simple things.
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this explains humanity's genetic family tree from prehistory till now. I have no idea why I am over-fascinated with this idea. I think science is basically wrong and blind. I want humans to know everything but remain intrinsically simple.
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My poetry
Sitting here,
Giving up
endless passion
No way to show
I’m crying here
Crying for light
Crying for life
What do I do?
Now that I know
Beloved love,
Is for the doves
Want for this
Need of kiss
Love of bliss
My heart you missed
Now I know
You are beautiful
Like the stars
So close but so far
But you can never have them
Don’t touch
Just look.
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Hi Carrina!
Thank you for information about your, you videos and preferences. We shall look at it carefully and ask questions if necessary. It will take a bit of a time to analyse and discuss your info. :)
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Thanks Olga!
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BYOB(System Of A Down Cover) by Break Of Reality
http://youtu.be/tk_ZrCK_e4Q (http://youtu.be/tk_ZrCK_e4Q)
System Of A Down - Chop Suey (cello cover) - Rob Scallon
http://youtu.be/qAxcoH5FOp8 (http://youtu.be/qAxcoH5FOp8)
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Lil Dicky - Sky Hooks
http://youtu.be/uG5YSrJ-J9M (http://youtu.be/uG5YSrJ-J9M)
Lil Dicky White Dude( Lyrics on screen)
http://youtu.be/iD11kk2Mieo (http://youtu.be/iD11kk2Mieo)
Eminem - Stan (Long Version) ft. Dido
http://youtu.be/gOMhN-hfMtY (http://youtu.be/gOMhN-hfMtY)
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Hi Carrina,
I looked at your information, I do not see ethics, but see logics. At the moment I would like to check LSI -ISTj for you. This is the best option what I can give you at the moment. What would do you think and say about LSI for you? What was the option for your type in the other socionics group on facebook?
if you are happy we can stop analysis. If you want to carry on - I would be happy to do it. We do ask for a small donation for the typing because it takes time and thought to do that. :)
If you wish to carry on, I would like to ask you to do the following:
What else I need from you are the examples of your favourite films - all the time favourite. You can post either trailer here of the favourite scene from the film/ a few examples. Let me know what you like to watch on TV generally.
It would be nice if you could post more of your favourite pictures - it could be examples of your print screen, avatars on the forum and the pictures of the art which you could put on the walls.
I also would like to offer you to do my questionnaire. There is no rush and you can make videos not all at once but by making small parts of it.
http://socionics4you.com/%d0%b0%d0%bd%d0%ba%d0%b5%d1%82%d0%b0-%d1%88%d0%b0%d1%81/?lang=en (http://socionics4you.com/%d0%b0%d0%bd%d0%ba%d0%b5%d1%82%d0%b0-%d1%88%d0%b0%d1%81/?lang=en)
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Hi, again, Olga. There are many reasons that LSI doesn't fit with me. I feel that Fi is in one of my lead functions as I am always governing what I do and what I am thinking by the way I feel about things.
I don't necessarily have black and white views but tend to understand that anything is possible and give credit to all perspectives. LSI's seem much more aggressive than I am. I don't want to completely reject the idea but soon I will go through the model A and descriptions of the placements and actually outline what has me so unsure. Thank you for your help and correspondence.
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In the facebook group I was ILI but after messing around with the friends there they (jack) typed me ESI. I can load my first video questionairre and then I will do your questionairre also.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suF4tBOtZlY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suF4tBOtZlY) (this is a 20 minute questionnaire that I did) this is where the group typed me ESI
I'll be recording your questionnaire (which goes into allot of detail :) soon and uploading maybe in portions, maybe not.
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Carrina, thank you for the feedback. I will have a look at your video, just want to mention that the process of typing for some can be quick and for the others - longer. We have a few tools - questionnnaires. Because it takes much more time we cannot do it for free. So far no one from the English speaking group went through the whole process of diagnostics. it would be nice if you would be the first one. :) Then you can be able to analyse yourself deeper with the help of the questions and will learn more about my approach.
My colleagues complain that there was only a couple of your favourite pictures, it is not enough for us. )) If you insist that your type is ESI, we need to see that in the criteria we use.
If you do not feel yourself aggressive at all than we shall see it one way or the other. What do you think about the option of SLI for your self?
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Olga, I am not quite sure yet about paid analysis. It is thus far not tested, if I am correct on that. I would way price with outcome. Let me know what you would charge, and I will think about it; it is by no means out of the question.
Also, for SLI, I am not an SI lead type. I know this. I do not insist that I am ESI. I insist that it is a good typing. I used to consider myself IEI. then, EII, then ILI, now ESI. On your color test I first got IEI, then EII, then ESI. In myers briggs tests I tested INFJ for 2 years, then after I had a break of relations with my SLE boyfriend I started testing INTJ and have ever since.
I have considered SLI and LSI, but as for Si, it doesn't fit. As for descriptions on wikisocion, ILI, IEI, and ESI fit me best, in that order. I know that wikisocion is lacking, that is why I don't take that as the highest sign.
As for being agressive. I find that I can be extremely aggressive for the right reasons only.
If you watch the last video that I put up it may help you and we can discuss it further. I find that ISFj in socionics fits that video very well, and it is very telling.
Thank you for your time and I look forward to more communication with you more on this and discussing where we will be taking this. :) talk to you soon.
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As for pictures, I will see what I can do.
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Sorry to make you click on each one of these. When I try to upload it wont post.
http://postimg.org/image/l9covcwuz/ (http://postimg.org/image/l9covcwuz/)
http://postimg.org/image/fg2musl7f/ (http://postimg.org/image/fg2musl7f/)
http://postimg.org/image/6z34jvgij/ (http://postimg.org/image/6z34jvgij/)
http://postimg.org/image/7r5sj2kpn/ (http://postimg.org/image/7r5sj2kpn/)
http://postimg.org/image/58k3idyzf/ (http://postimg.org/image/58k3idyzf/)
http://postimg.org/image/5qjubzdy3/ (http://postimg.org/image/5qjubzdy3/)
http://postimg.org/image/ns2z9s7yz/ (http://postimg.org/image/ns2z9s7yz/)
http://postimg.org/image/yhgo21jrv/ (http://postimg.org/image/yhgo21jrv/)
http://postimg.org/image/yhgo21jrv/ (http://postimg.org/image/yhgo21jrv/)
http://postimg.org/image/ebd635o4b/ (http://postimg.org/image/ebd635o4b/)
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Carina, I will have a look tomorrow on your video. Which pictures of the ones you have listed or any others you would put on your walls and where in the house?
What is wrong with the INTJ - LII for you- what are your thoughts about it?
Payment does not cover the whole effort of mine - just something as a thank you and appreciation (15 dollars a proposed donation). There is no school of socionics which can be considered to be proven. The approach of socionics is psychoanalytical in nature.
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Pictures that I would put on the wall include my drawings, painting, and drawings my children have done. i will try to find a way to upload the pictures i have taken.
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I have no way to upload my own. my webcam sucks and half of my things are left in another state :(
more soon.
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THINGS I WOULD HAVE IN MY HOUSE. living space
http://imgs.abduzeedo.com/files/articles/black-white-photography/4507173871_94a81f0afd.jpg (http://imgs.abduzeedo.com/files/articles/black-white-photography/4507173871_94a81f0afd.jpg)
http://webneel.com/daily/sites/default/files/images/daily/04-2013/5-elephants-by-ademeit-black-and-white-photography.jpg (http://webneel.com/daily/sites/default/files/images/daily/04-2013/5-elephants-by-ademeit-black-and-white-photography.jpg)
http://aseps.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/black-and-white-photographygreat-black-and-white-photography-of-bordeaux-part-1-welcome-to-gudqx2dr.jpg (http://aseps.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/black-and-white-photographygreat-black-and-white-photography-of-bordeaux-part-1-welcome-to-gudqx2dr.jpg)
https://cdn-pd-prod-4.plumdistrict.com/perks/7609/image/large.jpg?1317673906 (https://cdn-pd-prod-4.plumdistrict.com/perks/7609/image/large.jpg?1317673906)
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/110/d/d/man_of_the_circus_by_la__boheme-d62dx45.jpg (http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/110/d/d/man_of_the_circus_by_la__boheme-d62dx45.jpg)
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bedroom
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/eb/08/cd/eb08cd2e856d45cd89dc1a4510a82733.jpg (http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/eb/08/cd/eb08cd2e856d45cd89dc1a4510a82733.jpg)
http://bcrw.barnard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/sf2012.jpg (http://bcrw.barnard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/sf2012.jpg)
http://www.artfire.com/uploads/product/4/634/39634/6439634/6439634/large/large_abstract_modern_landscape_tree_art_black_white_red_e1c165ce.jpg (http://www.artfire.com/uploads/product/4/634/39634/6439634/6439634/large/large_abstract_modern_landscape_tree_art_black_white_red_e1c165ce.jpg)
http://hdw.eweb4.com/wallpapers/1763/ (http://hdw.eweb4.com/wallpapers/1763/)
http://www.getcartoonwallpaper.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Joker-4.jpg (http://www.getcartoonwallpaper.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Joker-4.jpg)
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ed/43/3c/ed433c18bb2700d10cf84e606dfda424.jpg (http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ed/43/3c/ed433c18bb2700d10cf84e606dfda424.jpg)
http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/3/5/6/1/9/6/7/ballerina_ballet_black_and_white_dutch_girl_Favimcom_401962.jpeg (http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/3/5/6/1/9/6/7/ballerina_ballet_black_and_white_dutch_girl_Favimcom_401962.jpeg)
http://postimg.org/image/paggf61y3/ (http://postimg.org/image/paggf61y3/)
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If I could have this all in one painting I would have only one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dSeYecM6wA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dSeYecM6wA)
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Hi Carina, I watched your video but did not understood everything 100% because you talk fast and sometimes you talk quiet. But no worries I still understood a lot and I saw your Fi. I would say ESI is possible. I just need more information to be convinced. I believe you are a Superego type which is rational introversion as you care a lot about society and people. I am still not 100 % behind the Fi as a programme.
Generally you appear as a strong personality, so it is possible to suggest that you have sensing as a strong function. That leaves us only with two options ESI and LSI. But for now I want to look one more time in your tests results.
Your beliefs about your type: IEI, EII, ILI, ESI - all introverts - introverted profile. More towards ethics and intuition (originally)
Colour test: IEI, then EII, then ESI
In myers briggs tests I tested INFJ for 2 years, then after I had a break of relations with my SLE boyfriend I started testing INTJ and have ever since.
As for descriptions on wikisocion, ILI, IEI, and ESI fit me best, in that order
I would suggest based on the test results, that nobody would doubt in your introversion. I would also suggest Superego- type which is rational introversion. What I am not sure about are the functions of your Ego-block of the model A. I see contradictions between logics and ethics. I need to go deeper and ask more questions. This is where the analysis starts for me - the time consuming and thinking part. You do not look like an EII to me but as regards LII and LSI to compare to ESI I would be happy to check you out in case you are ready for it spiritually and financially.
Although Jack's questionnaire is very good I understand better information when it is done on my questionnaire. If you cannot make a new video now, I would suggest to wait until it will be possible and come back to it. :) I am not sure how important it is for you to go through my analysis right now.
I have not yet discussed your materials with my school group. I will let you know what the other socionists think. If you don't want for any reason to do the analysis I will accept any type you believe you are. :)
Olga, I am not quite sure yet about paid analysis. It is thus far not tested, if I am correct on that. I would way price with outcome. Let me know what you would charge, and I will think about it; it is by no means out of the question.
Also, for SLI, I am not an SI lead type. I know this. I do not insist that I am ESI. I insist that it is a good typing. I used to consider myself IEI. then, EII, then ILI, now ESI. On your color test I first got IEI, then EII, then ESI. In myers briggs tests I tested INFJ for 2 years, then after I had a break of relations with my SLE boyfriend I started testing INTJ and have ever since.
I have considered SLI and LSI, but as for Si, it doesn't fit. As for descriptions on wikisocion, ILI, IEI, and ESI fit me best, in that order. I know that wikisocion is lacking, that is why I don't take that as the highest sign.
As for being agressive. I find that I can be extremely aggressive for the right reasons only.
If you watch the last video that I put up it may help you and we can discuss it further. I find that ISFj in socionics fits that video very well, and it is very telling.
Thank you for your time and I look forward to more communication with you more on this and discussing where we will be taking this. :) talk to you soon.
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I will do your questionnaire and let you speak with your group and if you we need to go further and I have the time we will go further.
I have a feeling that I don't know exactly how to respond to many of these questions because I don't know where I stand. I would consider 15 dollars if we needed to move forward in that direction. That is a small price compared to what you are doing and the learning experience involved.
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I DREW A TREE
(http://s25.postimg.org/9p4nbpd97/Image15.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/9p4nbpd97/)
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paypal
http://postimg.org/image/q3yko9v8b/ (http://postimg.org/image/q3yko9v8b/)
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(just remember if you have a hard time with any of my english here, just let me know and I can clarify anything you need)
I don't believe that I understand this questionnaire.. sorry i did it wrong.
in the below video I said I was going to end the video but I didn't. also I said "its fun". I don't think breaking people is fun. I think breaking things is fun. there is a big difference. I do like to find boundaries of people so I can understand them on a deeper level. shallow boundaries bother me and make me impatient but I don't break people. also, shallow perspectives and self righteous perspectives make me mad at people. I do try to show people that all perspectives are correct.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcdF5pRZdZU&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcdF5pRZdZU&feature=youtu.be)
My questions
Not my questions
doubted questions
I feel like i should have spent longer time here but i think you dont have hours to watch videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBccv04mgFM&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBccv04mgFM&feature=youtu.be)
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Carrina, thank you very much for payment and for all information. I will look into it in the next couple of days. Something urgent came out meanwhile.
Please, turn your tree picture all around and try to see hidden images and pattern which look like anything else which you did not know you were drawing at the same time. it is like your subconscious is drawing together with you. What has you subconscious interesting hidden for you?
Because the image is not full and the copy is not that good - I will try to see something but may not see much detail.
On this forum karma means "like". Likes are getting collected into number of karmas.
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Alright, thank you Olga for the information. I will see what I can do with the picture of the tree. there isn't much there except that I was drawing harder and harder with the crayons to get it to look like I wanted.
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I wanted to mention that when I dated the SLE for 3 years, I ended up believing I was an IEI becuase I tested as one every time because he influenced me and brought out many of his dual characteristics. Its like I was trying to compensate for him.
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Hi Carrina,
I have looked at the first video - it is very good. What you need to do: look at the each set of questions as a whole and think which questions are easier to answer for you and you feel more confident about. The idea behind the sets of questions that they would relate to a certain type of work and you need to decide what work or profession would be easier for you and you can do a lot of work by yourself without asking help.
You can also look at the sets of questions from the perspective what is more or less interesting for you. But you need to be sure that you can contribute successfully at the same time. there are only 4 sets of questions. Put them in the order like sensing - intuition - logics- ethics or in another way, your way.
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When I created the questionnaire I wanted people to think and realise which questions raise more often in their head and why. For example, if Te is leading or say strong enough, then people will better know on how to do things. Because they know objective laws and can use them as well as facts/ they naturally accumulate this information through life. And of course they will be interested in the new way on how to do things - interest. The people who do not know objective laws and have a poor logic - on the opposite- they will need help. So for them the question "how" to do things will be problematic.
So of you try to think what questions more than often you think about in your head which help you through life - these questions are yours.
Think also about what other people ask you about when they want help from you - what are you good at and what you can give other people? People sense the best qualities in each other and turn for help. So, what you ask the other people about and what the other people ask you about as help/advice?
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I looked at you second video as well, it is also good. :) Because you decided in the video about the questions which represent the aspects I can write it down and you correct me if I am wrong.
Yours - Fi, Si, Se
Not yours - Ni,
In doubt - Te, Ti, Fe, Ne.
What do you think about the possibility of being biased because you actually have seen which questions relate to what functions? Would be your answers different if you would not know what questions relate to what functions?
If you have a second thought and wish to change your opinion. you are welcome at any time.
I see your type clearly enough but I need you to see they way I see you. It is not easy. You need a good description of aspects in English and you need description of the model A. Some of the information I have on the website and some are not translated yet. You might need to do an extra search online resources. Please, give me the links that I would check it out as well.
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Model A
http://socionics4you.com/%d0%bc%d0%be%d0%b4%d0%b5%d0%bb%d1%8c-%d0%b0/?lang=en (http://socionics4you.com/%d0%bc%d0%be%d0%b4%d0%b5%d0%bb%d1%8c-%d0%b0/?lang=en)
You may need later type descriptions too.
http://socionics4you.com/category/profiles/page/2/?lang=en (http://socionics4you.com/category/profiles/page/2/?lang=en)
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I think my conclusions might be slightly bias but the answers that I was giving were not. You may be able to tell if I am able to rationalize which functions.
So you feel that you know which type that I am? that is good. So what are my instructions? And what type do you see?
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Carrina,I am not sure if it is a good idea for me to tell your type straight away. As you don't have enough information to decide yourself you may develop rejection on subconscious level and this will block your mind from understanding the type. You need to have an open mind approach to realise the work of certain functions within your psyche.
I don't mind to tell the type but you will not believe it and will carry on doubt about it. I am prepared to work your way through the process of realisation. I can only tell - you are not ESI.
My instructions are in in my posts above. You need to set your priorities in the first and second part of the tests. Check the previous page. I have got the feeling that you have missed my posts. :)
And please answer the question: Is it easy for you to lie and in what circumstances are you prepared to lie? If I ask you to say publically "My type is SEE", would you do it?
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Olga, I prefer never to lie. There are situations where I would lie, but they are extreme. I prefer not to be around people that lie. I prefer not to talk to them. If they are just joking, then OK. I don't think I have missed your posts. I just didn't understand your instructions. Now I think I do. You are saying to familiarize myself with model A, the functions, and the way the types are. I'm become so tired of reading this information. Its not easy for me to learn this way. I am burnt out. I already understand a great bit of this though. What I am going to do is actually read the links that you told me to see.
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lolz I guess I did miss a few posts. ;)
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for the lying question: I would lie for a friend, to get myself or my family out of trouble, to preserve relationships, thats really the extent. or if I think someone has no business asking me something and I become uncomfortable.
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I'm sorry but I still have a hard time relating these things to reality so here it is, in order (or so I think) Its also very hard for me to choose or discard any because I see the value in all of them. In my head I can myself using all of them fine.
fi- I am always focused on the way I feel. I filter everything through the way I feel.
se- stay out of my personal space, and I will stay out of yours. sparring is fun, i love to wrestle, I like to tease people. I don't like people who try to bully me. I will use force to make sure nobody is being bullied around me. I am careful around people who are dangerous. I like the heightened experience it gives me.
ne - I like to connect things together and throw out things that make no difference. I prefer not to think about what all the possibilities are if I don't care about the subject. I like new things, special things, exiting things, new people. I don't like things or people that are predictable. they are boring and unauthentic.
si- If I am too hungry, I can't focus. I can assesorize fine. I know which ingredients taste better together. I wonder if things are hygenic. I am not generally attuned to the physical environment. this is something I work on
fe- when I am in a bad mood I think fe is a waste of time. when I am in a good mood, I really like to try and make this one of my skills. I try very hard (when I am happy) to give people a good reaction to me. I will keep distance if I think I can't.
te- I'm not good at this. I think I am then I always find that my skills here are lacking. this is where I must use force and push through things. I don't know instructions. I have to have VERY thurough instructions or I won't know what to do. If I don't have exactly the right tools I become too frusterated to move forward.
ni- I like to think about the various possibilities of the future. I don't know what this means in relation to reality. I know when things fit into the overall picture.
I could see myself being a fi-ne but because I fight with my fists or use physical impact to make myself feel good people say that there is no possibility of being EII. If I am too upset I use a punching bag. If I am being bullied I punch walls instead of people. the physical pain helps me release my emotional tention. I frequently use se as a remedy for emotional pain, if we can consider boxing and martial arts an SE thing, but now I'm not so sure that it is.
fi se ne si fe te ni
I can't say I am too sure about any of these. You may be able to point out to me the things that I should focus on.
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I didn't do ti..
I am great at finding out what is wrong with my car, imagining the workings, the ones I actually understand. this could be in the conscious ring i think.
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okay so I just took the associative test again.. I got SEI. I don't agree with this typing but I also can't discredit it. just as an aside.
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I think that we should do a video chat soon.
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I don't feel you are ready now for a chat on the video but we definitely will have a chat later. Just answer my questions for now.
The way you answer about lies make me think that you have a categorical mind that means it is easier for you to see the situation or the question in black and white rather than the shades?
If the person lies to you, you feel seriously misled as you do not easy can spot the lie, is it right? You don't know if you can trust the person in the future, if you can rely on the person. it is much easier for you if the person is honest.
You do not accept lies from anybody - no matter who is it, what age and so on. You teach your kid to be honest and never to lie. If the person lies to you - one lie after another - you feel disrespected and humiliated - the mess you around and you hate when people do it to you. Is it all right or you wish to correct or to add anything?
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No. I see things in shades of grey. categorical? maybe. but only slightly. the thing is that I break my own rules and people close to me are forgiven for breaking the rules as long as they follow some of the most important rules like disrespect and things. yes, lying makes me feel mislead. If someone takes from me without me knowing, I hate the person. but if they are lying here and there I can forgive them, I just won't respect them. It is wrong to assume that I never accept lies.
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I believe that everything is completely situational. If I were going to pass judgement I would really have to know the motivations of others.
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I agree with Olga here. I think you're someone who won't just agree with someone's opinion unless it makes sense to you aswell. Just as a point of conversation....you said that dances with wolves is a a film you like. What is the appeal for you?
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In socionics we believe that logical types and especially rational types find it hard to distort the facts. For example some people find it hard to say that red apple is blue because it is not a true fact.
Some ethical type find it easy to distort the truth due to many different situational motives. They "lie" easily because it is more fun and more exciting - they partly believe the lie which they are saying. It is your ability to distort the truth and to be silly at times.
Carrina try to look at yourself in the mirror and talk abracadabra - childish language. if you find it extremely hard to do - you may be influences by the logic mind.
What you do not relaise is how important is Ti in what you think and do. You look at it from the perspective of Fi but in reality it is logical ethics where logics is leading. Try to look at yourself as a brainy and smart person who relies heavily on thinking, who understand the world from the perspective of understanding first - Ti. If you do not understand something - you cannot make sense you cannot relay then on your feelings. First understand then feel. Let me know what you think about it.
With you Ti programme you know when people talk crap - you can logically check it out. Let me know whom you believe to be silly and who annoys you from the world of well- known people/celebs.
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Try to look at yourself as a brainy and smart person who relies heavily on thinking, who understand the world from the perspective of understanding first - Ti
umm I'm not really sure. I can't pick out the crook. I usually end up dating them. okay so I truly believe that all perspective are true. I don't believe any one perspective first. As a matter of fact, one thing that angers me is when people refuse to look outside the box. This angers me sooo much. most of the time when I feel I shouldn't disagree with people, the limited points of view tempt me to show others that we all know so little. I believe other people's emotions and mind are sacred. You can't understand it but you must respect it. But the perspective only matters to those involved. Olga, maybe I haven't answered your question/ if you ask again I will try to understand what you mean.
as for being silly, I am frequently silly with people whom I trust or people that are being silly. sometimes in public. my favorite things are silly things. I like comedy very much. The comics I like the most usually point out some social extreme. I don't know if that was what you were asking. Olga, I'm not going to argue your impression of me being Ti, but I will need you to show me how this is possible. I know that I am overly concerned with how i am feeling about things. The way I feel matters in every situation.
The reasons that I like the movie dances with wolves. I really like the character that kevin coster plays, my family and I used to watch it together, I relate to the issues of the native americans being so innocent and being overcome but us, the white people. I feel guilty about this and relate more to those people then I do us. culturally, I was sort of raised to care about those things, to become angry at those social situations that are perpetuated today. I wish that I could avenge them (LOL this is silly but true).
Okay. I don't understand Ti practical applications in life. If its just simply understanding how things work, that is a skill I have to work on or allow others to show me.
so If you;re thinking that I am an LII, maybe you are right, but I couldn't agree right now. I mean, I will have to look at the intertype relations with the SEI, the LSI, the SLI, the LIE, and the SLE. those are my close relationships right now.
I will definately try to see it your way before I just disagree completely.
Just one more thing. with close personal male/female intimate relationships, I am frequently playing the part of vulnerable.. its extreme. I keep emotional distance and only close the gap when I trust others. I appreiate people who aren't taken aback from my extreme emotions. You have to understand this is in no way a light topic for me. this is why I think ESI. I know that it can manifest differently for everyone but anyway... if you could incorporate that to LII, I could attempt to believe it. welp.. I'm going to go read the Model A for LII and look at some of the intertype relations.
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disclaimer: I pretty much love everyone and can find everyone and every personality very beautiful in their own way, though many times upon closer interaction, I don't like people much once they aren't useful to my goals or happiness.
ILI's really get on my nerves, they think they are superior yet they fail to see other perspectives or think creatively. (some close interaction and one close relationship) I basically reject this type after too much discussion.
IEI's are fascinating, they have various informations that I could need, they are sweet sometimes, but I would never want to anger them. they are better when an ally and not an enemy (very close interaction, some disagreement, some close emotional bonds) I usually Love the IEI, they are silly sometimes thinking about things that mean nothing, but I will do anything for them, I feel that they are very capable.
LSI are assholes whom I prefer to avoid or atleast remain distant from them. I can take instructions from them but too much interaction makes me hate them. (very close non-intimate relationship)
SLI are sometimes closed minded, yet I love them very much,
I love the SLIs but they are overly concerned with material things. they fail to see obvious things. I like them for some reasons but I don't know what reasons, maybe because they care about me. we have deep misunderstandings yet we have an easy time moving through it (very close intimate relationship)
SEI is annoying, I can hardly understand what she is talking about or she is saying too many things that don't make a difference to the point at hand, she is counterproductive and manipulative. They act aggressive and passive at the wrong times. she thinks I am mean just by looking at my face which I find to be rude of her to make judgements like that basically everyday. I do find that they are useful and they try to care about others. (very close relationship, non intimate)
SLE is okay. I can love them easily but I believe that they are careless. we have fun, we can spend time together if it is nothing serious. we very much enjoy doing physical activities and mentally sparring.. when things get too serious I reject him for being uncaring toward other people. I attempt to control him. I find him to be mentally lacking. this person I find that I have to demand respect from. we have gotten into a few fist fights. yet the bond is strong. I prefer not to have too much interaction with this one unless its a very lighthearted thing. He thinks that he has to prove himself to me, which he does. (very close relationship)
I like EIE and SEE, they are people I would try to understand or get entertainment from, (from a distance)
LIE are productive and composed, sometimes they point out things that are obvious, I feel very comforted by them(very close intimate relationships)
ILE is annoying, talking too much for too long without allowing others to speak,,, always about what they have in their head without realizing that other things factor in, or that its not all about collecting data, but they are valuable when I need to know allot of things about one topic.. (from a small distance and some closer interaction) they stimulate me though.
EII is okay. I prefer not to expound so much on one thing, connect things that are mostly unrelated, but overall I think they have good points, If not obvious ones. (from a distance only) I feel that I would work well with them but probably hurt their feelings.
LII, annoying. they talk too much about too many various things that don't matter at all. I like them, I just don't have time to pay attention to all the shit they talk about. I'm happy to do outlines of things and move forward with a plan. LII's usually take more time then necessary to do small things. they are valuable for information and would tell me what I was missing if I asked. they also wouldn't just cave in from my perspective which I find reliable. (closer interaction)
certain extroverted fi types get on my nerves. I don't know their type. but they are so selfish.
I love the SLIs but they are overly concerned with material things. they fail to see obvious things. I like them for some reasons but I don't know what reasons, maybe because they care about me.
This pretty much sums up my first reactions, my slightly closer relationships, If you want in depth information about closer relationships I would give it to you. this may be an aside.
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One example of where I would lie. okay. I once had a casual sexual relationship with someone. I worked with this person and they were superior to me. We didn't really let on that we were dating. One man that also worked there asked me if i were single. because the other person was standing there I said "I am married actually, I don't wear my ring here so I won't lose it" so that they wouldn't hit on me in front of other people. this was a lie that didn't bother me. Like I said, everything is situational. If they would have asked me in private I would have said something completely different.
A situation when I don't lie. This person above that I was having a casual relationship asked me if I was seeing other people. I wasn't so I said no, I am not. I also said to him that I wouldn't have a problems seeing other people. I said this because I wanted to make sure that I wouldn't be held responsible for being disloyal if in the future I wanted to see other people.
I usually avoid the truth If I feel like lying. Its because I am bad at it. If this makes me a logical type, then maybe I am. I just don't think so..
Looking at model A doesn't convince me at all that I am an LII. at all.. but I do like there duals and semi duals. they seem to be exiting and funny. I have never known any very close though.
If there is something about a Ti lead that I am not understanding, please show me. :D I don't mean to be contrary, and by no means do I want to convince you of a type. I want you to convince me that I am wrong if I am. ESI have a hard time with theory if they cant apply it to real life no?
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I would be interested to hear what you mean about ILIs thinking they are superior. I don't get that sort of impression from the ESIs I know... Mostly I would say they are first...concerned about a relationship on an emotional level (do we seem to act like friends and agree what is a friendly way to behave with each other....). As far as logic or imagination is concerned they are either uninterested ( he is talking about something boring that i don't want to get involved in) or they seem either amused or slightly impressed with imaginative use of Ni or assertive use of Te. I wouldn't say superior is a word that I would expect as a complaint about me from an ESI. I wouldn't think that they see me as lacking creativity or perspective either. Can you think of an specific example when you thought an ILI was acting in that way?
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Carrina, thank you for detailed information but we shall take on slowly - one step at a time. :) You don't look, talk or act as ESI. So is your music and your pictures especially the first ones. ESIs are different. You luck a lot of info and it make me think where should I start at best. There is a lot of we can discuss but I need to think about the quickest way possible so that we do not lose time. Time is precious for ESI - activation function in Model A. ESIs do not waste time and wish quick result. )
OK, we shall start with Fe. ESIs do not have problems with Fe at all because they are Fi leading and because the are very strong people - Se creative. ESIs can deal with people who has trouble to control their emotions. LII have trouble with negativity and emotions- it is exactly how you sound when you describe your emotions. Dual is good ESE because they have a magic power over LII with their positive emotions. Please, try to talk to ESEs so that you feel their positive aura. They will be uplifting for you and you will see in them qualities which you value. They are strong and sincere people, freely express their emotions and get their way easy.
Does it sound the bell, not yet?
I would not take relationships in general as a good criteria but dual relationship do feel different. Although not every dual feels perfect.
If you would be ESI you would not have problems with Fe. Fe is strong but supressed by Fi, non-problematic. ESIs rarely use Fe. What can be problematic in certain circumstances is Se. ESI may have an impulse to hit before saying anything. LIIs does a lot of screaming and emotional clashes before gets to fists. There should be no impulse to hit in LIIs or ILIs.
How often do you hit your child, Carrina?
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At this moment I believe that LII is the best option for you. I am a bit concerned with your music though. It is not typical LII music. Could it happen that you were influenced by our friends SLIs in liking some of the music? Do you discuss your music and art preferences with your friends generally?
When I type clients I do keep my mind open and try to check out all possible mistakes. If I see suddenly something very wrong with your type option I will check it out and let you know that I am not sure.
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(I'm sorry this is so long)
Yes, I like quick results. That doesn't mean ESI though. You really shouldn't discredit it until you speak with me because I am socially shy until I get to know someone or value their discussions. Like I said, I remain distant emotionally until I trust enough. Most people don't know my personality. If you ask my mom what kind of person I am, or the people I work with at the factory, they will tell you that I am a kickass type of person. I don't particularly see myself this way. I don't really like people saying that because I prefer to not stand out, I want to be normal.
I am emotional, vulnerable, and reactive, which is not the impression others get. anyway I don't know if that makes sense.
I do have some trouble with negative emotions. I'm like, get over it. thats why I don't share mine. I only do during intimate moments when individuals can handle it.
Olga, I know one ESE at the moment and she doesn't really seem sincere. She seems overly bubbly, maybe I should ask her what she thinks. I don't have impulse to hit ILI or LII. I have impulses to hit the SEI, the SLE, and the LSI. The SEI I feel that way because she manipulates me and tries to make me fail. I feel sorry for feeling this way. She is jealous and doesn't care to hide it. It hurts my feelings.
I spank my child every day. I spank very easy though because I know it works the same. Its not really a spankin to be honest. I tell my kids to do something once or twice and then they get a swat on the butt if they don't listen.
I feel that I use Fe as well as Fi. I could be playing tricks on myself with this but if I care about someone and I feel like its productive I will engage a person for the sake of the relationship. Knowing about Model A helps me understand what people want. I just don't care enough sometimes but I basically use Fe, atleast I think I do. There are plenty of times though that I don't want to. My mood is what matters here.
I don't know any LII's or ILI's that I have enough contact with to use violence with them so I can't tell you how I feel about that. (actually I dated an ILI or he tested as one)
Although I do have emotional clashes before resulting to violence. that is true of me. I try to resort to other things first.
This is a story that I am emberrassed to tell but here it is: the other day this person that always parks in the alley and makes me lose access to my garage did it again. I couldn't get through. so I had the desire to throw rocks at his window and then leave. I didn't do it because I am rational but I did want to. I didn't want to talk to him because there was no point, he knows that everyone uses this alley but does it anyway out of stupidity. I was forced to wait and that pissed me off. I don't know what type this relates to.
When I have been in fist fights with the male SLE it was always after a long confrontation. We dated for 3 years but my beef with him was that he was very disrespectful and attempted to hurt feelings because he felt stupid. We fought over this and I just ended up rejecting him out of my life. We wouldn't have fought if it weren't for his lack of respect. It is also his apparent aggression toward women. I would kick someone's ass for hurting a woman in front of me. I wouldn't even hit a woman so who does he think he is to try and be aggressive with one just to get his way? (sorry I am ranting)
The ILI's have been getting on my nerves. I don't want to hit them of course but I don't really like talking to them. I find that they are very closed minded and refuse to look at other points of view other than their understandings of structured knowledge. The ILI that I dated never became aggressive with me, I never became aggressive with him. After time I did lose all respect for him though. I couldn't rely on him, I am partially to blame of course. We enjoyed power games though.
I am talking about my frustrations with people becuase you said we should start here. I don't have that much of a problem with this area, I am just summarizing my relationship with violence. Speaking of that I had a very violent and abusive upbringing which taught me that people should always be respected. that is one value I don't like to forgive. innocent should be protected and the people I care about will be respected atleast around me, that is for sure. That is my biggest reactor to violence. Oh yeah, so maybe me reacting to "disrespect" when in a bad mood is an Se POLR thing. I really don't know.
The dual relationships DO feel different. I love ENTJ's. we have our conflicts but for the most part we mutually respect each other, share information, remain distant when necessary, and accept each other as equals. There is strong chemistry. I know this is only a slight indicator. I won't argue that it could be other than dual, but they generally make me feel like letting go a little and getting into some kind of sport for the evening like bike riding or jogging. I also enjoy just messing around with them, they do talk too much but they generally love my personality. They respect me more than all the other types. I don't have to ask for respect from them. they make me feel special because they like my logic, although I know I am not that smart, they can laugh at me, they like to hug me. I don't like touching people that much, actually I hate it. I am not around many people that are trustworthy, though. So this is why I appreciate the ENTJs. They generally listen to me when I have something important I want to say.
I don't get my way easy. I allow people to make offers and give the same in return. If I really want something then yeah I guess I "get my way" but I am not a selfish individual. Some things have to be done. I take initiative when I have a goal, no one will get in my way unless I give them control over me, which has happened. oh, I have been rude to people at the counter in speedway for acting stupid. Im so sorry to have to admit this lol
Does this have something to do with se? Where I work is a very tough physical job. I am the only girl that works there. I am able to work harder and longer than most of the other people there. I love the work, it is like a real life video game to me.
I'm sorry if I seem very confused. I really haven't had a healthy life so I really didn't stand up for myself well when I was younger. I did always stand up for my sister though, even though she gets on my nerves. My family will always have a protector. But as for protecting myself, I don't care that much.
sorry for so much information. As you can see it is very complicated. I don't want you to think that I have so many issues with violence, I don't. I generally feel that when I chose to use violence, I have done it appropriately. The only reason I am talking about this subject is because I want you to understand.
I feel like a horrible person after writing all this.. jeez
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I would be interested to hear what you mean about ILIs thinking they are superior. I don't get that sort of impression from the ESIs I know... Mostly I would say they are first...concerned about a relationship on an emotional level (do we seem to act like friends and agree what is a friendly way to behave with each other....). As far as logic or imagination is concerned they are either uninterested ( he is talking about something boring that i don't want to get involved in) or they seem either amused or slightly impressed with imaginative use of Ni or assertive use of Te. I wouldn't say superior is a word that I would expect as a complaint about me from an ESI. I wouldn't think that they see me as lacking creativity or perspective either. Can you think of an specific example when you thought an ILI was acting in that way?
Hi, mudjumps.
the few ILI's that I know seem to be very one sided about everything. One is very racist. His political views are obviously told to him by the news.
The other ones only talk about what is scientifically accepted, there is no room for exploration. they say things like, please tell me you don't do science? and, you're just sticking words together. You make no sense. I say "actually you don't understand, thats completely different. Plenty of other people here understood me"
The ones I talk to online just seem to be on this magic carpet ride of positive stereotypes. I think they are very intelligent, yet they are also very one sided. I don't see them as being open minded. I don't appreciate people acting like they are smarter then everyone else with obvious arrogance. Maybe I just want to be right? haha. either way, they make me frusterated.
They pretty much spin everything I say and completely misunderstand me, while at the same time disagreeing. I have no time for that. actually its laughable how infuriated I get when people are disagreeing just to disagree and sound smart. OMG I am such troll bait. Please do not troll me or bait me. I can't deal with that today. (joking) Actually it might just be online that they bother me. I did date one for a while and I loved him but he just didn't really back up anything that he said.
The political view.. omg don't get me started.
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At this moment I believe that LII is the best option for you. I am a bit concerned with your music though. It is not typical LII music. Could it happen that you were influenced by our friends SLIs in liking some of the music? Do you discuss your music and art preferences with your friends generally?
When I type clients I do keep my mind open and try to check out all possible mistakes. If I see suddenly something very wrong with your type option I will check it out and let you know that I am not sure.
Sorry I didn't see this question. My music is my own. It speaks to me through my emotions. It makes me exited. my very favorite music in neo-classical heavy metal.
If the SLI influenced me it would have been me enjoying slow jams. I only like them sometimes. the one I know hates heavy metal. He does have good artistic tastes though. His music is good, but its like a little shallow, something to make him seem cool. every song sounds the same. I don't listen to music that isn't without flaw. (Now I am the one who sounds like I think I am superior)
I hate music that doesn't make me want to jump up and down, sing, punch things, or just close my eyes. the violin is my favorite because it gives me adrenaline. It is perfect.
This is hilarious
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz752wS7RaU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz752wS7RaU)
I like this music in my soul
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7Z4l94hxt0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7Z4l94hxt0)
that song is a cover of this song (obvious references to religion and spirtuality)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpEV0FQFUSY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpEV0FQFUSY)
I also love this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LP_4csP8MM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LP_4csP8MM)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ0Saq4O95U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ0Saq4O95U)
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Last one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cr78MFx9RU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cr78MFx9RU)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4r3PGLTN00 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4r3PGLTN00)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw2LTDoaYVQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw2LTDoaYVQ)
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You requested that I find pictures of people I am instinctively attracted to. I find this hard to do. I am thinking of a few now and will try to get them posted here soon.
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Trying to find well known people
ATTRACTED TO:
http://content4.viralnova.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/famous_people_aged_03.jpg (http://content4.viralnova.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/famous_people_aged_03.jpg)
http://s-i-net.staticish.com/sites/default/files/famous-self-injurers/russell-brand.jpg.pagespeed.ce.e9j7jAgBoz.jpg (http://s-i-net.staticish.com/sites/default/files/famous-self-injurers/russell-brand.jpg.pagespeed.ce.e9j7jAgBoz.jpg)
http://designyoutrust.com/wp-content/uploads7/thubakabra8.jpg (http://designyoutrust.com/wp-content/uploads7/thubakabra8.jpg)
http://cdn02.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/headlines/2013/12/channing-tatum-jonah-hill-22-jump-street-red-band-trailer.jpg (http://cdn02.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/headlines/2013/12/channing-tatum-jonah-hill-22-jump-street-red-band-trailer.jpg)
http://nashvillenoise.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/robin-williams.jpg (http://nashvillenoise.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/robin-williams.jpg)
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00862/460-nicolas-cage_862844c.jpg (http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00862/460-nicolas-cage_862844c.jpg)
http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/79/285x214/349843_1.jpg (http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/79/285x214/349843_1.jpg)
http://www.famefacts.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/beyonc%C3%A9-knowles-wallpaper.jpg (http://www.famefacts.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/beyonc%C3%A9-knowles-wallpaper.jpg)
http://cdn03.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/kitsch-eone/taylor-kitsch-keanu-reeves-variety-entertainment-one-party-01.jpg (http://cdn03.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/kitsch-eone/taylor-kitsch-keanu-reeves-variety-entertainment-one-party-01.jpg)
http://bwakeling.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/images.jpg?w=470 (http://bwakeling.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/images.jpg?w=470)
http://excellentpix.com/files/funzug/imgs/luxury/most_expfamous_houses_01.jpg (http://excellentpix.com/files/funzug/imgs/luxury/most_expfamous_houses_01.jpg)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-V2QzGVtfZ-U/ULvxSSDxiJI/AAAAAAAAAaE/6YOXMYaLLAc/s1600/222787512786556982_hsGtk0dg_b.jpg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-V2QzGVtfZ-U/ULvxSSDxiJI/AAAAAAAAAaE/6YOXMYaLLAc/s1600/222787512786556982_hsGtk0dg_b.jpg)
http://www.familyvideo.com/entertainment-news/images/large/0/19638680.jpg (http://www.familyvideo.com/entertainment-news/images/large/0/19638680.jpg)
http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/europe/denmark/dkpics/famouspics/viggo_mortensen.jpg (http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/europe/denmark/dkpics/famouspics/viggo_mortensen.jpg)
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/69/ae/fa/69aefacb5670f9fe66203213d6579291.jpg (http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/69/ae/fa/69aefacb5670f9fe66203213d6579291.jpg)
INSTINCTIVELY NOT ATTRACTED BELOW
http://www-deadline-com.vimg.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/anne-hathaway-headshot__130327180142.jpeg (http://www-deadline-com.vimg.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/anne-hathaway-headshot__130327180142.jpeg)
http://laidbacklizard.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Jessica-Alba-Hot-Actress-Wallpapers-04.jpg (http://laidbacklizard.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Jessica-Alba-Hot-Actress-Wallpapers-04.jpg)
http://www.dyslexiaonline.com/images/famous/tom_cruise.jpg (http://www.dyslexiaonline.com/images/famous/tom_cruise.jpg)
http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/tyra-banks-ivy-league__oPt.jpg (http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/tyra-banks-ivy-league__oPt.jpg)
http://msn.lockeroom.com.my/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/NBC-via-Getty-Images.jpg (http://msn.lockeroom.com.my/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/NBC-via-Getty-Images.jpg)
http://best-haircuts.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/famous-men-hairstyles-30.jpg (http://best-haircuts.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/famous-men-hairstyles-30.jpg)
http://wallalay.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Vin-Diesel-88.jpg (http://wallalay.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Vin-Diesel-88.jpg)
http://www.topnews.in/light/files/Emma-Watson_53.jpg (http://www.topnews.in/light/files/Emma-Watson_53.jpg)
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"This is a story that I am emberrassed to tell but here it is: the other day this person that always parks in the alley and makes me lose access to my garage did it again. I couldn't get through. so I had the desire to throw rocks at his window and then leave. I didn't do it because I am rational but I did want to. I didn't want to talk to him because there was no point, he knows that everyone uses this alley but does it anyway out of stupidity. I was forced to wait and that pissed me off. I don't know what type this relates to. "
LII
It is a pressure on your Se vulnerable. You are get overemotional because feel helpless. Yes, there are a lot of stupid people around, you are not the one. You are logical, you do not understand how to deal with such stupid people. If you would be ESI - you would know how to put pressure on people (Se creative) in different situations without getting over emotional. People push you - you tolerate easily as you know how to push back. But you only do it when it is truly necessary. There is not need for emotions. Some people are more smart and some are not. People are just people.
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"When I have been in fist fights with the male SLE it was always after a long confrontation. We dated for 3 years but my beef with him was that he was very disrespectful and attempted to hurt feelings because he felt stupid. We fought over this and I just ended up rejecting him out of my life. We wouldn't have fought if it weren't for his lack of respect. It is also his apparent aggression toward women. I would kick someone's ass for hurting a woman in front of me. I wouldn't even hit a woman so who does he think he is to try and be aggressive with one just to get his way? (sorry I am ranting)".
SLE was not good for you because his programme Se falls on to your vulnerable Se. LIIs belong to Superego (SE)- quadra and they can sacrifice themselves for others as any SE- type. It is because for all 4 types Ti+Fi - moral rules and prinziples of behaviouir, judging are very important. You have mixed up role Fi for programme Fi. it is similar but not the same. There is ethical logics and logical ethics. You demonstrate to me logical ethics, which is true and right but not that flexible enough and miss on details. if you would be Fi programme you would be much more relaxed in situation with people. Ethical types see people differently. I cannot imagine than any of SEI types could give you trouble. Se creative is much more powerful than Fe creative.
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The ILI's have been getting on my nerves. I don't want to hit them of course but I don't really like talking to them. I find that they are very closed minded and refuse to look at other points of view other than their understandings of structured knowledge. The ILI that I dated never became aggressive with me, I never became aggressive with him. After time I did lose all respect for him though. I couldn't rely on him, I am partially to blame of course. We enjoyed power games though.
There is more similarity and not enough difference to be exciting for each other, I guess.
I am talking about my frustrations with people becuase you said we should start here. I don't have that much of a problem with this area, I am just summarizing my relationship with violence. Speaking of that I had a very violent and abusive upbringing which taught me that people should always be respected. that is one value I don't like to forgive. innocent should be protected and the people I care about will be respected atleast around me, that is for sure. That is my biggest reactor to violence. Oh yeah, so maybe me reacting to "disrespect" when in a bad mood is an Se POLR thing. I really don't know."
Good thinking! Look, your respect issue is to do with your programme Ti - authority, hierarchy, order, structure, thinking. And on the other hand - vulnerable Se. This is a powerful combination which makes Robespierre in France send lots of people to guillotine. He was also very emotional about disrespect of what he valued and did not have creative Se. Ti and control - is a powerful and dangerous combination for LII. But with experience they learn to control their anger and channel it into libido - life enjoyment, hobbies and etc.
ESI -EII - this is the type close to Jesus and he was extremely patient and tolerant with people. If he could have emotional problems - he would not be able to carry on the mission. :)
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The dual relationships DO feel different. I love ENTJ's. we have our conflicts but for the most part we mutually respect each other, share information, remain distant when necessary, and accept each other as equals. There is strong chemistry. I know this is only a slight indicator. I won't argue that it could be other than dual, but they generally make me feel like letting go a little and getting into some kind of sport for the evening like bike riding or jogging. I also enjoy just messing around with them, they do talk too much but they generally love my personality. They respect me more than all the other types. I don't have to ask for respect from them. they make me feel special because they like my logic, although I know I am not that smart, they can laugh at me, they like to hug me. I don't like touching people that much, actually I hate it. I am not around many people that are trustworthy, though. So this is why I appreciate the ENTJs. They generally listen to me when I have something important I want to say.
I don't get my way easy. I allow people to make offers and give the same in return. If I really want something then yeah I guess I "get my way" but I am not a selfish individual. Some things have to be done. I take initiative when I have a goal, no one will get in my way unless I give them control over me, which has happened. oh, I have been rude to people at the counter in speedway for acting stupid. Im so sorry to have to admit this lol
Does this have something to do with se? Where I work is a very tough physical job. I am the only girl that works there. I am able to work harder and longer than most of the other people there. I love the work, it is like a real life video game to me.
Carrina - you belong to Superego types - they are hardworking people and you can rely on them in any aspect of work. LIIs are often workerholics. And so LSi. they ususally don't know what they want but they know that they want to work. The quality of work they produce is a personal pride. Perfectionists.
I'm sorry if I seem very confused. I really haven't had a healthy life so I really didn't stand up for myself well when I was younger. I did always stand up for my sister though, even though she gets on my nerves. My family will always have a protector. But as for protecting myself, I don't care that much.
This is true for all Se-types to a different degree. LSI will stand up for himself easily because authority is values and have the means to push it in the right way - Se creative.
sorry for so much information. As you can see it is very complicated. I don't want you to think that I have so many issues with violence, I don't. I generally feel that when I chose to use violence, I have done it appropriately. The only reason I am talking about this subject is because I want you to understand.
I feel like a horrible person after writing all this.. jeez
No, it is all fine with me. I can understand your feelings. People have different experience. It must have been very stressful for you as you felt pressure of violence on your Se so often. But Se is in your mental block of model A. That means you don't like to use but potentially capable of it. You have more power control and understanding over Se use than ILIs - Se as suggestive. You can get into fights when it is necessary and ILIs hardly ever fight back. They feel lost in front of the Se. They prefer to ignore it and avoid as possible as they can.
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... Maybe I just want to be right? haha. either way, they make me frusterated.
It is very important for you to feel right and you want to show others that you are right. For that reason you do not like people to answer back as you see it as a disrespect and stupidity. You can be annoyed with people getting in the middle of your work and asking to explain something from the beginning.
Does it annoy you when you watch the film and somebody missed half of it and askes questions as if you have to explain something to them?
Not LII no ILE do not like stupid people who does not understand their point.
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Now I see more obvious music of LII. You do have also Se music but that's Ok because there is variation in every list of music. Your music is fine with LII. :)
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Can you chose from the list of people the most 2-3 attractive and not attractive? Can you define what attracts you in them or what annoys you the most in people you don't like?
You can also try to think this way not just about people but some objects which you like and which you don't like. What associations come to you mind then?
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I was today very frustrated and had situation similar to Carrina but it was about technology. My new earphones did not work and I supposed to talk to somebody on scype phone. If something does not work I get panicking. I start to press all possible buttons, I stop thinking straight, can not read properly instructions. I get hysterical inside and nearly crying. Felt helpless. Whatever I do in such moments it will be wrong. At the end I get depressed.
If we look at the functions then it is clearly logica and intuition. I do not understand how things work Te+Ni and I d not understand what is going on exactly Ti+Ne, I do not see way out.
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"This is a story that I am emberrassed to tell but here it is: the other day this person that always parks in the alley and makes me lose access to my garage did it again. I couldn't get through. so I had the desire to throw rocks at his window and then leave. I didn't do it because I am rational but I did want to. I didn't want to talk to him because there was no point, he knows that everyone uses this alley but does it anyway out of stupidity. I was forced to wait and that pissed me off. I don't know what type this relates to. "
LII
It is a pressure on your Se vulnerable. You are get overemotional because feel helpless. Yes, there are a lot of stupid people around, you are not the one. You are logical, you do not understand how to deal with such stupid people. If you would be ESI - you would know how to put pressure on people (Se creative) in different situations without getting over emotional. People push you - you tolerate easily as you know how to push back. But you only do it when it is truly necessary. There is not need for emotions. Some people are more smart and some are not. People are just people.
I'm pretty sure being pissed off and being emotional is not the same thing. I didn't get emotional at all. I feel like you are rationalizing everything that I say in a very twisted way. No one on earth would read the things I have said and say that I was an LII. Maybe LSI, but definately not LII. I also think you are drawing many conclusions that I haven't personally stated.
I'm getting very frusterated at the idea that I am an LII. I know I am not.
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There are many jobs that I hate, I try to stay engaged but if it isn't fast paced I will fall asleep. So, no, I cannot be relied upon in any work related way. I can be relied on only if I enjoy what I am doing.
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Why are you pushing that I have Ti lead function?
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Carrina, I am sorry if you see it that I push you. I don't. I am just explaining the way I see you from my perspective. It is normal that our perspectives are different. I do not want to convince you, I just want to show a different line of seeing and thinking. I told you at the beginning that I will respect your opinion about your type because this is the way you see yourself. It was not my intentions to create any confusion or upset you. I thought you want to know how I see you. So now when I tell you what I see in you and your submitted information you get disappointed. I am really sorry about that. If I would be in your place I would be happy to learn Olga Tangemann view because she is a professional socionist. It will not harm you just to hear Olga's view, is it?
If you think it will harm you, then we can stop here and now.
Just think about the facts. Not very long time ago you truly believed that you are an ILI. Now you are truly believe you are an ESI. The MBTI test says LII. I say LII.
ILI and ESI differ on 3 out of four dichotomies (rationality~irrationality, logics-ethics and sensing -intuition). ILI and LII - just one - rationality~irrationality.
There is more likely that you have mistaken only one dichotomy and not three. I don't know, who typed you previously as ILI and why you have been sure that you are ILI before?
I personally would doubt your judgement about your type as you ready to switch between dichotomies so easily and get so convinced about your new type option. However it is has been and it will be always your choice of identification. You are free to stop the dialogue at any time but if you see that I push you - it may be just effect of Se vulnerable.
The typing process for the client who does not know the approach is all about interpretation and making sense. The facts which I perceive as the facts will make no sense to you as you do not know the approach so it will not convince you.
But I do not want to convince you - it is not my purpose. If the client already convinced in something opposite - it is a waste of time for both of us. On another hand if you are curious to understand how and why I see you differently then you may get more insight and get more knowledge from me. But I do appreciate my knowledge and would not want to push it on to you. I am not up to any arguments. You are free to think what you want to think about me, my approach and your type. But if you want to learn I will teach you. The decision is yours. :)
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none of the tests say LII. they all said ILI.
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Whats upsetting me is that you are seeing everything that I say as something that leads you to believe what you believe even more.
Plenty of the things that I have said would never come out of an LII's mouth. Nor an LSI. think about it. My relationships are always based on the way I feel. Do LII's love fast paced environment? Do LSI's seek emotional security? My closer relationships are all about intimacy. I crave close intimacy of the spirit. Maybe LII does this I don't know.
I would glady accept your theories here but I see your judgement are also preconceived with little room for persuasion. I am not new to socionics.
I just want you to reevaluate what I have said and tell me that LII and LSI could really live in accordance with the values and joys that I desire.
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Carrina, an INTJ is as good as LII. ;)
Also, for SLI, I am not an SI lead type. I know this. I do not insist that I am ESI. I insist that it is a good typing. I used to consider myself IEI. then, EII, then ILI, now ESI. On your color test I first got IEI, then EII, then ESI. In myers briggs tests I tested INFJ for 2 years, then after I had a break of relations with my SLE boyfriend I started testing INTJ and have ever since.
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Whats upsetting me is that you are seeing everything that I say as something that leads you to believe what you believe even more.
Plenty of the things that I have said would never come out of an LII's mouth. Nor an LSI. think about it. My relationships are always based on the way I feel. Do LII's love fast paced environment? Do LSI's seek emotional security? My closer relationships are all about intimacy. I crave close intimacy of the spirit. Maybe LII does this I don't know.
I would glady accept your theories here but I see your judgement are also preconceived with little room for persuasion. I am not new to socionics.
I just want you to reevaluate what I have said and tell me that LII and LSI could really live in accordance with the values and joys that I desire.
I am sorry if you think this way. I said to you LII when I hardly knew you. I have a good experience of a few years typing. Sometimes I can type just by the avatar and one post on the fourm. It may seem as magic but it is not - it is experience. You need to relax and to trust me. I know you have issues with trusting people you don't know. But again you are not losing anything if you just try to listen to me. You will always listen to whoever. I am not whoever, I am a professional and I listen to you carefully, don't worry. There is a lot of knowledge you have to absorb.
As I said earlier I am always open to any possibility. If I will doubt or eve if I mistake - I will tell you about it. At the moment it is exactly what it is - the more I listen to you the more I confirm your type. But it is only after talking to you on scype I will finish the dialogue about your type. If you want Skype talk now I don't mind but I usually keep it short.
I personally think that you are not ready to accept any other type option at the moment. It may be a waste of time for me to explain anything altogether. I would not mind to live it as it is and come back to discussion of you type later when you again get into doubts about your type. Then there will be more understanding between us. At the moment you don't trust me. And this is real bad because a lot depends on how you see the expert, if you trust her or not.
It is quite often when a client have a different opinion about her type but if you are not prepared to listen to what expert is saying we shall never reach any understanding. Yes, I can explain all what seems to you as wrong.
The test shows to you INTJ - that means it is a LII but sometimes if could be ILI too. Tests are based not on the models but on the dichotomies and they are the same in socionics and MBTI. The type profiles may consist the elements of theory and there could be confusion with LII or ILI. But tests and dichotomies are true. So if the test shows you LII that means the tests match your answers to LII. My test English version is very easy to mislead because the functions are very simple. If you chose ethics and sensing then no chance you will get LII.
There is discrepancy between your true self and the way you see yourself. This is one thing. Another thing that you have your subjective perception - stereotype of the LII as it should be. But do you really have met a lot of them? have you typed them? If you would you may see that LIIs are like you or a bit like you.
The last thing. Yes, LIIs are very emotional. Some better control their emotions. Fe is suggestive. This also means that it is easy to mislead LII in relations to ethical issues. I am not Fe leading, I don't want to convince you or to influence opinion. I can give information and you can decide about it later.
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I started testing INTJ ever since in myers briggs. . INTp in socionics. It was about six months. Not LII.
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I don't really like the Fe that much. sorry but types that are seeking Fe and types that often use Fe don't exactly seem real to me. they seem like a waste of time. They are annoying, they also do things that make me want to ignore them.
What about the other things I have been trying to discuss with you?
I cannot be Se POLR. I understand from your perspective how it can look like that. I know, very well, an LII. He is annoying. Everything he does is another diversion from the point. I can't handle that. Anyway, your first impression is wrong. You should really try to see where I am coming from.
Also, I always tested ILI, INTJ INTp, INTJ in myers briggs. not LII, INTj
please consider that you did misunderstand me. I also know some ESI's they also sound very analytical. Olga, I have been going through the dicotomies again. I am trying to see where you are coming from. I know why it looks this way to you. I am a very hard person to type. I am checking all the IM's in Model A and the various placements of Ti and Te and Se.
I don't think I am "emotional." I think I seek emotional connection adn bond and very close interaction/intimacy. thats not an LII thing to do.
Answer this: A. Does LII like physical impact sports?
B. do they like fast paced environments?
C. do they love to wrestle?
D. do they love to box and practice martial arts?
E. Do they like to argue with people pretending?
F. Do they like adrenaline and extreme sports?
G. Could an LII and an SLE date for 3 years and enjoy mental playing and power games for fun?
H. Would an LII like to be dominated or enjoy testing pain tolerance?
I think the answer to these is no.
Please consider these and tell me what you think.
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I understand where Carrina is coming from. Of course there is a reason why people like certain songs, movies and art.... But normally it is beyond Someone's understanding. It takes a bit of belief to try something new and to be honest I get very mad with world Socionics people who are open minded enough to get into Socionics but feel that if you are more open minded than they are you deserve to be punished for being an idiot. Maybe someone's opinion is not much use unless you see where it comes from and just being confused is not what you are looking for. I had a look at what you posted. Something's I couldn't make much sense of. The music mostly looked pretty static but I think you already worked out you are a rational introvert right? (which is a static type...). It seems to me that associative Socionics is a sort of additional tool to model A. Both measure how you think. Model a is more precision whereas associative Socionics is more to do with depth (it can quite easily work out your profile/subtype... Which I personally have found to be as important as the type) feel frustrated by the process. I don't really have an opinion on your type. I can see where Olga is coming when she says you come across as Ti leading. You come across as articulate and driven by Logic.i didn't really feel like I got much from what you posted though. If you want to add more art or film scenes that you think are meaningful I'm happy to comment.
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Mudjumps,
I have no idea how to do that. I am driven by the way I feel about things. Thats all I have been trying to explain here. Again, I do understand where Olga is coming from. I also see how it could look like I am driven by logic. I feel I am driven by ethics.
Every song here that I have posted has to do with my emotions. She keeps saying I have a problem with my emotions, I really don't. I am vulnerable, do seek emotional connections with people that I choose to interact with. I express the way I feel about people that I am closer to by being loving and physical, like hugging, looking into someone's eyes, holding hands, putting my head on their neck, so on.
Again, I get where Olga is coming from. I'm going to attempt to validate Olga's typing of me before I reject it. I need clearer directions on how I am supposed to show you what I like. I mean, I really don't know how to pick from the onslaught of materials that are available.
Did you look at the the pictures of people that I instinctively like and don't like? Olga asked me to explain what I do and don't like about these people. I have no idea how to point out the way a person's personality makes me feel. I just like it or I don't like it. Maybe someone can explain to me specifics?
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Rationals
(Also called shizotymes in early socionics literature)
Tend to plan ahead, make decisions early. yes and no
Are more often rigid and stubborn. yes
Do not like to change their decisions.yes
Tend to finish what they started.no
Usually have stiff movements.yes
Usually more 'authoritarian' leadership style.yes
Low stress tolerance.yes, definately
Irrationals
(Also called cyclotymes in early socionics literature)
Tend to wait and see, more spontaneous.yes
Are more often flexible and tolerant.can be
Change their decisions frequently.sometimes
Tend to start new things without finishing them.yes
Usually have gentle movements.yes and no
Usually more 'democratic' leadership style.sometimes it depends on my mood
High stress tolerance.definately not
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Hi Carrina. I'm here learning about aesthetics. It's not my profession and I can't validate Olga's typing. The face thing is her own method. Out of my own curiosity I'm keen to have a look at your choices. If you post something other people will also have a look and comment. I don't think you added any film scenes? You can think of a film you enjoyed watching quite a few times when you were younger. Then think of what scene was most striking or memorable. Sometimes it can be quite telling...
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THINGS i HAVE A PROBLEM WITH
Your primary mode of living is focused internally, where you deal with things rationally and logically. Your secondary mode is external, where you take things in primarily via your intuition.
they live in the world of theoretical possibilities. They see everything in terms of how it could be improved, or what it could be turned into. They live primarily inside their own minds, having the ability to analyze difficult problems, identify patterns, and come up with logical explanations. They seek clarity in everything, and are therefore driven to build knowledge. They are the "absent-minded professors", who highly value intelligence and the ability to apply logic to theories to find solutions. They typically are so strongly driven to turn problems into logical explanations, that they live much of their lives within their own heads, and may not place as much importance or value on the external world. Their natural drive to turn theories into concrete understanding may turn into a feeling of personal responsibility to solve theoretical problems, and help society move towards a higher understanding.
they value knowledge above all else. Their minds are constantly working to generate new theories, or to prove or disprove existing theories. They approach problems and theories with enthusiasm and skepticism, ignoring existing rules and opinions and defining their own approach to the resolution. They seek patterns and logical explanations for anything that interests them. They're usually extremely bright, and able to be objectively critical in their analysis. They love new ideas, and become very excited over abstractions and theories. They love to discuss these concepts with others. They may seem "dreamy" and distant to others, because they spend a lot of time inside their minds musing over theories. They hate to work on routine things - they would much prefer to build complex theoretical solutions, and leave the implementation of the system to others. They are intensely interested in theory, and will put forth tremendous amounts of time and energy into finding a solution to a problem with has piqued their interest.
they do not like to lead or control people. They're very tolerant and flexible in most situations, unless one of their firmly held beliefs has been violated or challenged, in which case they may take a very rigid stance. He is likely to be very shy when it comes to meeting new people. On the other hand, they are very self-confident and gregarious around people they know well, or when discussing theories which they fully understand.
He has no understanding or value for decisions made on the basis of personal subjectivity or feelings. They strive constantly to achieve logical conclusions to problems, and don't understand the importance or relevance of applying subjective emotional considerations to decisions. For this reason, they are usually not in-tune with how people are feeling, and are not naturally well-equiped to meet the emotional needs of others.
He may have a problem with self-aggrandizement and social rebellion, which will interfere with their creative potential. Since their Feeling side is their least developed trait, they may have difficulty giving the warmth and support that is sometimes necessary in intimate relationships. If he doesn't realize the value of attending to other people's feelings, he or she may become overly critical and sarcastic with others. If he is not able to find a place for themself which supports the use of their strongest abilities, they may become generally negative and cynical. If the he has not developed their Sensing side sufficiently, they may become unaware of their environment, and exhibit weakness in performing maintenance-type tasks, such as bill-paying and dressing appropriately.
For the him, it is extremely important that ideas and facts are expressed correctly and succinctly. They are likely to express themselves in what they believe to be absolute truths. Sometimes, their well thought-out understanding of an idea is not easily understandable by others, but he is not naturally likely to tailor the truth so as to explain it in an understandable way to others. The he may be prone to abandoning a project once they have figured it out, moving on to the next thing. It's important that the they place importance on expressing their developed theories in understandable ways. In the end, an amazing discovery means nothing if you are the only person who understands it.
The he is usually very independent, unconventional, and original. They are not likely to place much value on traditional goals such as popularity and security. They usually have complex characters, and may tend to be restless and temperamental. They are strongly ingenious, and have unconventional thought patterns which allows them to analyze ideas in new ways. Consequently, a lot of scientific breakthroughs in the world have been made by him.
He is at his best when he can work on his theories independently. When given an environment which supports his creative genius and possible eccentricity, they can accomplish truly remarkable things. These are the pioneers of new thoughts in our society.
THERE ARE A FEW THINGS MISSING HERE. MY RELATIONSHIPS WITH OTHERS ARE MORE IMPORTANT TO ME THAN ANYTHING.
I AM ALSO AT HOME IN A VERY FAST PACED ENVIRONMENT. ITS WHERE I WORK THE BEST. ANY OTHER ENVIRONMENT HAS ME FALLING ASLEEP.
I AM STRONGLY DRIVEN BY MY VARIOUS FEELINGS OF WHAT I DESIRE IN THE MOMENT. I AM A VERY INTIMATE AND LOVING PARTNER WITHOUT TRYING VERY HARD. I NOTICE HOW PEOPLE ARE FEELING, I JUST DON'T CARE ABOUT CERTAIN PEOPLE. OTHER PEOPLE I DO.
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THINGS I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH
ESIs are primarily attuned to the world of their own inner emotional states and emotional reactions to others. They may commonly be introspective and constantly in a state of trying to sort out the way they really feel. ESIs value their own sense of fidelity and life stability, and they may always try to treat others with fairness and decency. However, they often tend to be highly reliant on their attitudes towards others in directing their path through life, which can sometimes lead them down circuitous and complicated pathways and interfere with their moral rectitude. THIS IS VERY TRUE FOR ME
For ESIs, connections with others mark a predominant and over-arching life focus. Though close contacts for ESIs often tend to be sparse, when ESIs find a degree of mutual respect towards others, they can be deeply empathetic, compassionate, and loyal. They may emphasize close connections and mutual understanding with others above all other things.
ESIs' attitudes towards others are commonly characterized by skepticism and distrust, and their overall demeanor may be private, closed, uncommunicative, and individualistic. They may feel as though they can see into the motivations and character of others, and sometimes are instinctively be quick to judge others harshly. Similarly, they may also have difficulty forgiving others and often react coldly to those with past transgressions, or who they see as immoral or characterologically reprehensible. They may by nature adopt a standoffish, confrontational attitude in lieu of a conciliatory one, which may in fact only serve to aggravate their emotional conflagrations. At the same time, however, they may see their judgmentalism as hypocritical and strive to treat others with reciprocity and fairness rather than preemptive judgments. In this way, their behavior can be an internal conflict, oscillating between the predominance of a curtain of friendliness and a core of distrust. Most commonly, ESIs hold an air of both amicable receptiveness, but also one of penetralia and unapproachability. ALL THIS IS TRUE
Many ESIs are inclined to see themselves as morally immaculate, and to behave as such whenever they can.
ESIs can also be rather traditional and conservative in their life outlook. They may tend to see others who interfere with the stability of their lifestyle as untrustworthy and flighty.
Extroverted Sensing (Se, Se)
ESIs often have a tendency to be confrontational and may come across as unwavering and strict in their judgments and discipline.press judgment, fight for what they believe is ethically sound, or for those emotionally close to them.[/glow]
ESIs may sometimes practice a variant of "tough love," challenging others towards acting in a way they feel is in their best interests. They can often come across as matter-of-fact and demanding in their expectations of others, and may have blunt advice, especially geared towards success in the material world. They are sometimes archetypally pictured as strict disciplinarians. Often, however, they may feel as though they challenge others no harder than they challenge themselves; they are often extensively self-critical and may strive hardest to live up to their own expectations for themselves. ESIs may concern themselves with following the rules or ettiquette for successfully interacting in a formal setting, and with dressing and coming across properly to others. They often have a keen sense of style.
Though ESIs are sometimes inclined to retreat from and avoid others, they at other times are not reticent to initiate contact and engage others intimately. They may become very absorbed and reliant on their emotional connections towards others. They may also at other times be highly proactive and constantly prepared to contact others or push others towards a state of activity.<< THIS SOMETIMES
Super-ego block
Introverted Logic (Ti, Ti)
ESIs may have a tendency to become caught up in justification for their actions, and in matters of theoretical consistency, evaluation of relative importance, and objective decision-making. They commonly see the justification of their actions according to logical and existing scientific principles as important and worthwhile<<SOMETIMES, and may conscientiously wish to behave rationally and sensibly -- though they may have less interest or patience in relating their actions to theoretical material that is overly abstract. However, in fields where the practical applications of their work are based on theoretical, academic, or scientific knowledge (ie, economics, medicine, design, etc) they may feel the importance of understanding the conceptual or theoretical backing behind their actions, and they may become somewhat mired in attempting to make sense of the theoretical structure, often devoting excessive time to understanding the subject, leaving out important details, twisting facts inadvertently, and losing track of their organized arguments.
ESIs usually approach the arena of academia and theory formally, trying to make sense of abstract principles by sequential organization, memorization, and force of will. They may push themselves academically while working inefficiently to the point of wearing themselves out. They are typically more comfortable in situations involving ethical or interpersonal considerations where they can listen to their internal emotional guidance than in dealing with impersonal logical argumentation.
Extroverted Intuition (Ne, Ne)
ESIs often especially dislike uncertainty and have a tendency to vigilantly prepare for any and all extenuating circumstances. They may have difficulty coping with unforeseen changes or with particularly indecisive individuals, instead preferring a lifestyle of stability and continuity -- though many ESIs have developed more adaptive styles for dealing with such situations. They may feel discouraged, confused and lacking in their autonomy if they have to consider and keep track of large range of possible outcomes; instead, they may prefer a more direct and linear synopsis of what is likely to happen.
In general, ESIs prefer solution-oriented, pragmatic advice and insights to abstract or theoretical material. They may have difficulty following or comprehending theoretical or associative tangents with no apparent practical basis. They are often rather straightforward and grounded in nature, and may have little interest or proficiency in dealing with overly conceptual perspectives<<YES . They may respond to many situations with the strategy of hard work and diligence, as opposed to innovative or conceptually novel modes of working.
ESIs can have a tendency to see issues of morals or personal character in black and white. They may often act as though viscerally certain of their moral positions and character judgments, and may be dismissive of attempts to contextualize situations ethically, instead seeing others as clearly responsible for their actions and reprehensible.
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Hi Carrina. I'm here learning about aesthetics. It's not my profession and I can't validate Olga's typing. The face thing is her own method. Out of my own curiosity I'm keen to have a look at your choices. If you post something other people will also have a look and comment. I don't think you added any film scenes? You can think of a film you enjoyed watching quite a few times when you were younger. Then think of what scene was most striking or memorable. Sometimes it can be quite telling...
This is all I could come up with for now. I was searching for the scene in castaway where tom hanks threw his volleyball named wilson and then rescued him and appologized.
http://youtu.be/sfM64k7Ir1w (http://youtu.be/sfM64k7Ir1w)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dSeYecM6wA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dSeYecM6wA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U56CTlGkx8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U56CTlGkx8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yElIQDAEtOg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yElIQDAEtOg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU-imAbZ5G8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU-imAbZ5G8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rT5fYMfEUc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rT5fYMfEUc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuQZJHfWf9U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuQZJHfWf9U)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSvFpBOe8eY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSvFpBOe8eY)
one of the best movies of all time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MBp4fEL8CA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MBp4fEL8CA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv7Ts4v5_Bs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv7Ts4v5_Bs)
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I COULD BE WRONG BUT i AM ASSUMING THAT THIS IS HELPFUL
(http://s25.postimg.org/s9zed38t7/199630_270325019750341_65672772_n.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/s9zed38t7/) (http://s25.postimg.org/5b2ou6ct7/1002373_558887470874519_914481585_n.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5b2ou6ct7/) (http://s25.postimg.org/hofj132hn/10393873_10152099665286174_521014058825297755_n.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/hofj132hn/) (http://s25.postimg.org/p0pkkda3f/10461915_10152499905714907_820625692_n.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/p0pkkda3f/)
(http://s25.postimg.org/65tttya1n/5907920727_4b26823131_z.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/65tttya1n/) (http://s25.postimg.org/9qppd6el7/Africa_earth_environment_xxx.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/9qppd6el7/) (http://s25.postimg.org/ntbms5jyz/Capture.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ntbms5jyz/) (http://s25.postimg.org/qyw8id2l7/friends.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/qyw8id2l7/)
(http://s25.postimg.org/pz5xmnnff/GLOBAL_LOVE_PIC.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/pz5xmnnff/) (http://s25.postimg.org/58k3idyzf/Helping_Others_Shoes.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/58k3idyzf/)
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Hi Carrina, It is better not to pay to much attention to profiles because the aspects are not clear cut for type but coincide to a certain degrees and therefore they can be misleading. LIIs in many ways resemble EIIs and I think it is what attracted to you Sensing partners. LIIs make impression on people as good listeners and the are attracted to LIIs, tell them their personal issues and etc.
It is all very natural to LIIs.
Also keep in mind that whatever we discuss now on the level of theory and information will take time for you to realise and to notice in real life. You will slowly gain experience and understanding through practice. It is not like I poined to you something and the next day it became absolutely clear to you. It is a process. :) And it will be slow step by step at a time. Of course if you would start learning my approach to typing this process would go quicker and you would better differentiate the facts. But I am not pushing you as the person need to want to do it in a first place. :)
Difference between MBTI and socionics exist on the theoretical level - they have different models - ways of interpretation - for introverted types in particular. But it has got nothing to do with tests.
All tests the same - dichotomies. The profiles depend on the dichotomies and models and authors perspective - type - it a complex view and profiles can be different from author to author. I will tell you more about it when we talk next time on scype.
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Carrina don't rush with information - don't give to much of it. I understand you want to clear all you questions quick and get quick to the point but quantity of info does not mean quality of understanding. There is a lot in your videos and we shall better discuss them. :)
I will colour red - what you need to pay extra attention as being logical and blue what refers to rationality /irrationality and therefore can be general for ESIs and other types.
Rationality it is rational functions of logic+ ethics as dominant, Irrationality -sensing +intuition as dominant.
Rationals
(Also called shizotymes in early socionics literature)
Tend to plan ahead, make decisions early. yes and no
Are more often rigid and stubborn. yes
Do not like to change their decisions.yes
Tend to finish what they started.no
Usually have stiff movements.yes
Usually more 'authoritarian' leadership style.yes
Low stress tolerance.yes, definately - this is not the right criteria for the rational type.
Irrationals
(Also called cyclotymes in early socionics literature)
Tend to wait and see, more spontaneous .yes
Are more often flexible and tolerant.can be
Change their decisions frequently.sometimes
Tend to start new things without finishing them.yes
Usually have gentle movements.yes and no
Usually more 'democratic' leadership style.sometimes it depends on my mood
High stress tolerance.definately not
I would say there is more yes than no for rational type. Read type preferences on my site. You don't need to provide the detailed answers but say generally how you feel about preferences and we shall start from your general view (in Russian) : http://socionics4you.com/%d0%be%d0%bf%d0%b8%d1%81%d0%b0%d0%bd%d0%b8%d0%b5-%d0%b4%d0%b8%d1%85%d0%be%d1%82%d0%be%d0%bc%d0%b8%d0%b9/ (http://socionics4you.com/%d0%be%d0%bf%d0%b8%d1%81%d0%b0%d0%bd%d0%b8%d0%b5-%d0%b4%d0%b8%d1%85%d0%be%d1%82%d0%be%d0%bc%d0%b8%d0%b9/)
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I don't really like the Fe that much. sorry but types that are seeking Fe and types that often use Fe don't exactly seem real to me. they seem like a waste of time. They are annoying, they also do things that make me want to ignore them.
I do not like much either but it is not the reason to see you as ESI - you need to see it in the context of the full picture of LII in model A, hoe it manifest in behaviour and attitude. For example, I dont like much but it does not bother me that much - I can ignore it easily no matter negative or positive. I can use it sometimes but not in the manner the Fe leading use it. Depending on the combination of dichotomies there will be something similar and different between LII ans ESI. For LII it is suggestive function. That means he can use it in a way as asking for help SOS. He cannot control them and tend to overdo it. His negative Fe- reactions are often inadequate. Who rushes to help him and to channel emotions? Hugo. ESE make magic with his positive emotions and lift thm up, channel them in the right way. LIIs can be at times depressed and gloomy as they don't know how to get from the negative emotions. Hugo acts fast as a first aid.
Esi does not need ESE as he can settle his emotions quick himself - Fe as observing~limited function. No problems in handling and tolerating emotions of others. ESI is good at shutting down any emotions. This does not work that well with LII because once LII decide he wants to show his emotions - he needs to express them fully but not somebody trying to shut him up. He will see it as running away from the problem, changing the subject and this will frustrate him even more.
OK, we looked only at Fe in the models A of LII and ESI.
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The butler scene.
This guy is a comedian and LIIs like light hearted emotions - good for their Superid block of model A - feeling nice emotions Si+Fe, making them feeling comfortable emotionally. It can be also considered as childish, silly and fun - energy of Id compensate serious energy of Superego. Such not overly clever scenes relax mind taking away from thinking over solving problems. Mind of LII routinely is working hard- lots of thoughts Ti and seeking the right solutions ne.
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Answer this: A. Does LII like physical impact sports?
B. do they like fast paced environments?
C. do they love to wrestle?
D. do they love to box and practice martial arts?
E. Do they like to argue with people pretending?
F. Do they like adrenaline and extreme sports?
G. Could an LII and an SLE date for 3 years and enjoy mental playing and power games for fun?
H. Would an LII like to be dominated or enjoy testing pain tolerance?
I think the answer to these is no.
Please consider these and tell me what you think.
Why not? People work hard on their vulnerable functions as well. It is not that they are not capable or restricted heavily. There will be difference within LII type as well. It is partly the influence of the environment on the nature of personality and culture. We should not be too rigid.
If Se is presented as competitive sport -that is fine with LII. They are capable of achieving remarkable results. Ones they focus on something, they can surprise in their willpower and achievements Se-leading types. The only problem is if it is not their routine, profession then they do it only for a certain period of time - as show off and then go back to square one. However people notice that this person has an inner strength and powerful will - if only they want to.
Teasing and playing in Se is very good to LII. He feels secure and understands - it is only a game. In real life situatons when LII is angry it is more negative Fe and verbal than actual.
For example, LII is driving and expresses his emotions freely, shows fingers to the passing drivers who annoys him and etc. But if the other driver will stop and decide to confront him face to face - the reaction of LIIs will be not as brave. Because it is mainly Fe -reaction. Something stops him and this is his logical thinking and understanding that he is not that good to stand up for himself in fact. Se vulnerable.
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I really hope Carrina that you will see your type as quick as possible - this is just my wish )). I try to avoid very long typing as it time consuming and energy. it can be too long if we pay attention to details - it is hard to educate the person to see it with the eyes of an expert. I hope you understand this. I am sure that Malcolm will be happy to talk about music and films and we shall have to come out with the profile for sure - this is the plan. :)
I would suggest the next to talk through Model A for LII and cover the functions which I did not described yet. One important thing the consultancy about the type is in a way that I don't have to teach you. I can just say in a few lines why I see what I see and it is not my problem that the client sees otherwise for a simple reason: the client is not an expert. :) I hope you understand it, Carrina. We need somehow to strike the balance. ;)
I remember that I said before - I am willing to teach you but this was set in a common sense and mainly in relation to my approach. I will not explain every little detail you don't understand now but I will provide a general line of thought for the option LII. I hope you are OK with that? )
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All this sounds fine to me Olga. I have been thinking again about ethics and sensing.
I feel that I apply the right amount of pressure with poeple and objects. Anyway, I think looking into model A is fine. I have already done this a little bit but I would rather be led through it.
Olga, don't assume I didn't understand you. I did. When I apply it to my life, I see your mistakes. I also see how you are able to see Se Polr and Ti lead. Its fine.
Whenever you are ready I will go with it.
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You should be able to read Fe vs Fi in these pictures of me.
My choices of clothing and colors should also show you some things.
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You should be able to read Fe vs Fi in these pictures of me.
My choices of clothing and colors should also show you some things.
OK, your colours are introverted, you dress code casual-smart. It does not tell me that you are ethical type all together. I am not thinking that you are Fe- leading. I do not see in particular folk traditional clothes and julleweries typical for ESI either. I do not see anything incompatible with LII at the moment. But LII can have a lighter dress code, romantic party code. I just did not upload this kind of pictures. Have a look at the gallery:
http://socionics4you.com/forum/index.php/topic,354.0.html (http://socionics4you.com/forum/index.php/topic,354.0.html)
ЛИИ stands for LII ЭСИ - ESI
http://socionics4you.com/number4/ (http://socionics4you.com/number4/)
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Your aesthetic taste seems pretty consistent in film and music. Maybe as an experiment try posting on World Socionics the Will feral thing and ask people which Quadra does this sense of humour belong? Quadras are a bit like a set of social values but they are also understood as psychological age/mental age. Alfa being like a baby..... To Delta being like old age. Gamma is quite an unlikely answer I would say.
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I looked through all videos today that Carina has posted. She is a very romantic person but so LIIs are. I would assume that LIIs the most romantic of all scientist types. LIEs can make impression of being romantic but it may be shallow die to Fe as a role function and not Fi.
She likes light and silly comedies - very simplistic humour but it fits well as a compensation to Ti programme and is in agreement with dual's Fe of Hugo. LIIs like party and if they get into mood they last long. LIIs are passionate about things they like and give it all for the right purpose. They can party, eat and drink a lot and it is partly Si activation to blame -comfort lovers.
I like also films like classics but to a certain degree it suits to all Superego types. On the whole I do not see anything that would not fit the image of LII - lady. :)
Still thinking about profile.
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I looked through all videos today that Carina has posted. She is a very romantic person but so LIIs are. I would assume that LIIs the most romantic of all scientist types. LIEs can make impression of being romantic but it may be shallow die to Fe as a role function and not Fi.
She likes light and silly comedies - very simplistic humour but it fits well as a compensation to Ti programme and is in agreement with dual's Fe of Hugo. LIIs like party and if they get into mood they last long. LIIs are passionate about things they like and give it all for the right purpose. They can party, eat and drink a lot and it is partly Si activation to blame -comfort lovers.
I like also films like classics but to a certain degree it suits to all Superego types. On the whole I do not see anything that would not fit the image of LII - lady. :)
Still thinking about profile.
I hate partying. I tune out my physical comfort almost all the way. I don't like film classics at all. You keep saying things about me that aren't true!!
OMG Lol.. I wear plenty of low key accessories. I will upload the ones I am wearing right now.
Also, I don't think I can put much effort into Model A tonight because I have had a long day at work and I am about to fail my chemistry class!!!
So I must study lol. I will talk to you guys soon. And yes I will post the will farrel thing to the WSS site and see what they think..
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One more thing, I don't care at all if the ENTJ's are romantic or not. I really don't give a crap. I just like the way I feel around them, and I like hugs from them. I like their discussions, they stimulate me.
Anyways here is the accessories that I am wearing right now..
I usually tune the accessories down and wear a belt around my weigst or a tight vest to make my body shape look good.
I'm pretty unmaterialistic as I know both ESI and LII are. My romance style is wresling, talking, and cuddling. And a little playful banter and picking on eachother.
I'm not trying to disprove LII I just don't think its true. If you are wrong you will know soon enough. Do LII's spend most of their time thinking about their friendships and relationships?
I don't make chart, think about theory, make lists, take notes. I don't even remember what I was thinking sometimes.
But hey, if you still see LII, I'm not going to say I'm not. I'm just going to keep pointing out the things I see.
If I am not LII, you will know eventually.
(I personally would never think anyone could see LII from the pictures I have uploaded but you are the expert here not me.)
My music is about emotions and adrenaline. Its also about religion and the human condition. (ethics I'd say but again, I could be wrong) LOL
(http://s25.postimg.org/bk29ccvh7/Image17.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/bk29ccvh7/)
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I didn't say I was Fe lead. I would never say that. I meant you should be able to see what types of ethics I have from looking at my expressions and my mind from my color choices.
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Also, please understand I am not trying to agrue with you. I think the things I am pointing out are pretty important. You don't have to explain anything else to me. Whatever requests you make I will try to fullfill. I am having a hard time looking at links right now and my computer is running slow so I will do the things you have asked me to do soon.
LIIs in many ways resemble EIIs and I think it is what attracted to you Sensing partners. LIIs make impression on people as good listeners and the are attracted to LIIs, tell them their personal issues and etc
I can ignore it easily no matter negative or positive. I believe ignore was the word I also used.
I can use it sometimes but not in the manner the Fe leading use it. << of course
Depending on the combination of dichotomies there will be something similar and different between LII ans ESI. << yes
For LII it is suggestive function. That means he can use it in a way as asking for help SOS. He cannot control them and tend to overdo it. His negative Fe- reactions are often inadequate. Who rushes to help him and to channel emotions? Hugo. ESE make magic with his positive emotions and lift thm up, channel them in the right way. LIIs can be at times depressed and gloomy as they don't know how to get from the negative emotions. Hugo acts fast as a first aid. << not sure about this. I don't really want to talk to people about my emotions. I just want to feel good. Of course I understand ESE is good with LII, I will have to see what I think
good for their Superid block of model A - feeling nice emotions Si+Fe, making << exactly the type that gets on my nerves. I prefer strong types for this type of play.
You said LII spends time working on weak functions too. (Se) For me these physical activities have never been weak areas. They are what comes natural to me. This is waht I do because I like it. I always have. I prefer to do them alone or with one buddy but its not like I have to "work" on it.
I just am and have always been a very "tough" physical individual, with a "hammering" gait. LOl.. I'm not tryng to make this difficult. There has to be a better way tfor us to decifer what I use. I don't like this guessing and I have a huge disagreement with that.
However you think we should find out I would like to get that out of the way.
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I hate partying. I tune out my physical comfort almost all the way. I don't like film classics at all. You keep saying things about me that aren't true!!
Why did you put scenes from Pride and Prejudice if you don't like classics? I was a bit surprised but I thought may be it is because you are female. I wish you understand that not all details are so important and personality can slightly deviate due to many factors and influences. There are many different details about you but you may or you may not see the image of LII. This is the difference. I look from the outside and you from inside. For me it is already more than enough information and I don't see the point to go any deeper. For you - nothing helps at the moment to see what I see because you are not me.
If you want to think that I mistake about your type - I don't mind. there is nothing you can prove for each other in socionics - nothing. It is interpretative perspectives and if you will look at the personality from different theories plus different experience you can see different types. All what I am saying that I fully agree with the test results of INTJ. :)
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One more thing, I don't care at all if the ENTJ's are romantic or not. I really don't give a crap. I just like the way I feel around them, and I like hugs from them. I like their discussions, they stimulate me.
Ok, what you are saying is subjective ( your personal view), what I am saying is observation on the basis of the model A. But it is good that you feel good around them - it does not mean you cannot be LII.
Anyways here is the accessories that I am wearing right now..
I usually tune the accessories down and wear a belt around my weigst or a tight vest to make my body shape look good.
I'm pretty unmaterialistic as I know both ESI and LII are. My romance style is wresling, talking, and cuddling. And a little playful banter and picking on each other.
ESIs are materialistic due to the creative sensing, they like all colors, flowers and in particular pink + yellow. Your accessories are not ESI but LII like, logical. I think ideally we should consider both models for the comparison. As regards to wrestling I cannot be sure it is more LSI like hobby but there is nothing clear cut in typology. LSI is "the relative" type for you so I can imagine that some LII could be wrestlers as well. It is not like all LIIs are scientists.
I'm not trying to disprove LII I just don't think its true. If you are wrong you will know soon enough. Do LII's spend most of their time thinking about their friendships and relationships?
Yes they do if they have nothing lese think about. )) I am not thinking about it all the time and I am an ESI. Thinking means Ti, analysis. ILIs also are good at analysing who said what and why.
It depends what you think how you think and why you think. My husband is a manager at work and sometimes he cannot sleep because he is thinking how he is going to sort out ethical problems at work with staff. It does not make him ethical type, he is looking for soultions Ne. As for me I deal with Fi- problems there and then and not think about it. A different matter if you are romantically involved then any type will think about it.
I don't make chart, think about theory, make lists, take notes. I don't even remember what I was thinking sometimes.
But hey, if you still see LII, I'm not going to say I'm not. I'm just going to keep pointing out the things I see.
We cannot carry on forever like that. :) I will have one more conversation with you on Skype eventually and my job is done.
Carrina, why do you want to prove me that you are not LII? Why is it so important to you?
You will go to a different expert and he will suggest ILI or LSI may be. Are you going to spend you time for proving your point to any expert? Is it really necessary?
Socionics is not a math and different people will always perceive you differently as regards to type and not the type only. Some will say you are very warm and some say you are harsh and emotionally difficult or whatever.
What should be important for you - what you think about yourself. Type does not restrict you in any way not relationship wise not professionally. To a certain degree type is superficial category like a form but personality is a content. It does not all depend on the form but also on the content.
It is a part of life which is irrational - there is not and there will not ever be a clear cut categorisation of people - there will always space for mistery. I believe it is on purpose - there is a very deep meaning to it.
If I am not LII, you will know eventually.
(I personally would never think anyone could see LII from the pictures I have uploaded but you are the expert here not me.)
My music is about emotions and adrenaline. Its also about religion and the human condition. (ethics I'd say but again, I could be wrong) LOL
Yes, I see ethics but it is a logical ethics and not proper ethics. I think we have to admit that we shall be able to come to the agreement about your type here and now. It happens. )) WE shall have another chat and if you will feel like ESI then forget about Olga Tenagemann - there must be flaws in her approach. ))
Would you like to show pictures of you parents? How many siblings in your family?
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I didn't say I was Fe lead. I would never say that. I meant you should be able to see what types of ethics I have from looking at my expressions and my mind from my color choices.
I am not always comment on anything and mostly likely if I do not comment that means nothing is bothering me in the image of the type. I perceive you choice of colours as logical and/or introverted (black and white) and so are you accessories. :) But you don't have to believe me. You only have to believe me if you would start training in associative socionics. I have got no motive to convince the client that I am right and he is wrong. I don't want power struggle and how you feel is important to me. I don't want to upset you in any way.
If you feel that I am wrong then I am wrong for the sake of you feeling good about yourself. Because I will not feel any different whether I am right or wrong.
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good for their Superid block of model A - feeling nice emotions Si+Fe, making << exactly the type that gets on my nerves. I prefer strong types for this type of play.
I understand this but Hugo is an Ego-type and strong enough to show the fireworks of emotions - stronger than LII does and only the strong programme functions can find the ways to settle the inadequate suggestive. How they do it - it is a different matter. They welcome the emotions of the LII because the are able not only to handle but manipulate them. Fi-programme partners cannot manipulate Fe-suggestive. But on the whole Fi-partners are good for LII too because of Fi value. LII does not value only Fe but also Fi.
You said LII spends time working on weak functions too. (Se) For me these physical activities have never been weak areas. They are what comes natural to me. This is waht I do because I like it. I always have. I prefer to do them alone or with one buddy but its not like I have to "work" on it.
I just am and have always been a very "tough" physical individual, with a "hammering" gait. LOl.. I'm not tryng to make this difficult. There has to be a better way tfor us to decifer what I use. I don't like this guessing and I have a huge disagreement with that.
However you think we should find out I would like to get that out of the way.
It depends on individual. If LIIs are into sports that they enjoy and need it for adrenalin as anybody else in sport.
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I believe that even you are not convinced in LII option for you it is useful for you to know my opinion and arguments. Did you have any experience with ESIs in real life or on the internet?
You can have a look at their picture and music choice and may be gallery as well:
http://socionics4you.com/forum/index.php/topic,363.msg3024.htm (http://socionics4you.com/forum/index.php/topic,363.msg3024.htm)
http://socionics4you.com/forum/index.php/topic,119.0.html (http://socionics4you.com/forum/index.php/topic,119.0.html)
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I believe that even you are not convinced in LII option for you it is useful for you to know my opinion and arguments. Did you have any experience with ESIs in real life or on the internet?
You can have a look at their picture and music choice and may be gallery as well:
http://socionics4you.com/forum/index.php/topic,363.msg3024.htm (http://socionics4you.com/forum/index.php/topic,363.msg3024.htm)
http://socionics4you.com/forum/index.php/topic,119.0.html (http://socionics4you.com/forum/index.php/topic,119.0.html)
Thanks for all your corresponcance. I don't know any ESI's. I do know LII's.
Your first link give me clendar.
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One more thing, I don't care at all if the ENTJ's are romantic or not. I really don't give a crap. I just like the way I feel around them, and I like hugs from them. I like their discussions, they stimulate me.
Ok, what you are saying is subjective ( your personal view), what I am saying is observation on the basis of the model A. But it is good that you feel good around them - it does not mean you cannot be LII.
Anyways here is the accessories that I am wearing right now..
I usually tune the accessories down and wear a belt around my weigst or a tight vest to make my body shape look good.
I'm pretty unmaterialistic as I know both ESI and LII are. My romance style is wresling, talking, and cuddling. And a little playful banter and picking on each other.
ESIs are materialistic due to the creative sensingI am not materialistic, i can be but people who are too worried about how soft the sheets are and mowing the grass every day seem like woosies. , they like all colors, flowers and in particular pink + yellow I prefer light colors also. my sneakers are pink and black. my other sneakers are blue and brown. Your accessories are not ESI but LII like, logicalyou can't see well in the picture but one of my bracelets are auqua blue and black, light blue is my best color.. I think ideally we should consider both models for the comparison. As regards to wrestling I cannot be sure it is more LSI like hobby but there is nothing clear cut in typology. LSI is "the relative" type for you so I can imagine that some LII could be wrestlers as well. It is not like all LIIs are scientists. I do want to be a scientist but I have been told many times I should be a counselor. I am in environmental science right now and I plan on teaching science at middle school to kids.
I'm not trying to disprove LII I just don't think its true. If you are wrong you will know soon enough. Do LII's spend most of their time thinking about their friendships and relationships?
Yes they do if they have nothing lese think about.I do have other things to think about lol )) I am not thinking about it all the time and I am an ESI. Thinking means Ti, analysis<<ok. ILIs also are good at analysing who said what and why.((I just want to make sure you know that I am not talking about romantic relationships, right now I don't have any. I prefer to casually date. I have been in too many relationships as it is))
It depends what you think how you think and why you think. My husband is a manager at work and sometimes he cannot sleep because he is thinking how he is going to sort out ethical problems at work with staff. It does not make him ethical type, he is looking for soultions Ne. As for me I deal with Fi- problems there and then and not think about it. A different matter if you are romantically involved then any type will think about it.
I don't make chart, think about theory, make lists, take notes. I don't even remember what I was thinking sometimes.
But hey, if you still see LII, I'm not going to say I'm not. I'm just going to keep pointing out the things I see.
We cannot carry on forever like that. :) I will have one more conversation with you on Skype eventually and my job is done.
Carrina, why do you want to prove me that you are not LII? Why is it so important to you?
You will go to a different expert and he will suggest ILI or LSI may be. Are you going to spend you time for proving your point to any expert? Is it really necessary?
Socionics is not a math and different people will always perceive you differently as regards to type and not the type only. Some will say you are very warm and some say you are harsh and emotionally difficult or whatever.
What should be important for you - what you think about yourself. Type does not restrict you in any way not relationship wise not professionally. To a certain degree type is superficial category like a form but personality is a content. It does not all depend on the form but also on the content.
It is a part of life which is irrational - there is not and there will not ever be a clear cut categorisation of people - there will always space for mistery. I believe it is on purpose - there is a very deep meaning to it.
If I am not LII, you will know eventually.
(I personally would never think anyone could see LII from the pictures I have uploaded but you are the expert here not me.)
My music is about emotions and adrenaline. Its also about religion and the human condition. (ethics I'd say but again, I could be wrong) LOL
Yes, I see ethics but it is a logical ethics and not proper ethics. I think we have to admit that we shall be able to come to the agreement about your type here and now. It happens. )) WE shall have another chat and if you will feel like ESI then forget about Olga Tenagemann - there must be flaws in her approach. ))
Would you like to show pictures of you parents? How many siblings in your family?
The pride and predjudice movie that I like is from 2005.
I didn't like the movie the first time I watched it because I didn't like the style.
When I watched it again I understood what it was about. This movie takes me on a journey through love. thats why I like it.
I have 5 siblings. 2 sister, 3 brothers, I have a twin, we grew up all in the same house with the same parents. My father I think is an LSI and my mother an SEI. I have about 50 cousins just from my dads siblings. We grew up together. So I have a huge family. We sort of lived as if all the cousins were really brothers and sisters, the grandparents were the parents, the aunts and uncles and parents were like brothers and sisters and they also played the role of parents to all of the kids.
My granfather was like our spiritual leader. We travelled all over the country from a very young age learning about various religions, social problems, and history. That is my social upbringing.
I relate more to your music then the LII profile music, Olga. Although, there is a certain time period of music that makes me want to throw up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5pE8t30d_o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5pE8t30d_o)
Its not the words I hate its the sound that everyone was trying to make that is so.. I can't even say what I hate so much about it! All the songs that sound like this and most from this era I don't like at all.
I love this sooo much. Its so beautiful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv8NIdwGxIM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv8NIdwGxIM)
I do like colors and flowers. Not as much as my SEI mom. To her, she tells me everyday the same ugly colors. I like to decorate my house, I don't like to clean. I wear light blue. Certain color schemes are ugly to me. I don't like dark colors, unless they are base colors like brown, grey, black. If I have brown or black cloths its so that I can mix and match them with other colors of the same hue.
I used to dress in flowy hippy cloths. Now I dress casually. I switch my personal style all the time. It depends on who the audience is. I generally wear cloths that will appear original and flatter my personal shape. I don't like to be overly showy or draw too much attention, I just want to appear acceptable and slightly original and attractive. I try to dress in a way that others won't be dressing.
The picture of me above I have my arm over the shoulder of my SLE boyfriend at the time. If I am ESI I would be his supervisor which fits our relationship very well.
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I hate partying. I tune out my physical comfort almost all the way. I don't like film classics at all. You keep saying things about me that aren't true!!
Why did you put scenes from Pride and Prejudice if you don't like classics? I was a bit surprised but I thought may be it is because you are female. I wish you understand that not all details are so important and personality can slightly deviate due to many factors and influences. There are many different details about you but you may or you may not see the image of LII. This is the difference. I look from the outside and you from inside. For me it is already more than enough information and I don't see the point to go any deeper. For you - nothing helps at the moment to see what I see because you are not me. fair enough
If you want to think that I mistake about your type - I don't mind. there is nothing you can prove for each other in socionics - nothing. It is interpretative perspectives and if you will look at the personality from different theories plus different experience you can see different types. All what I am saying that I fully agree with the test results of INTJ. :)please understand that my test results were ILI or INTJ in myers briggs. I have never tested as INTJ in socionics. Only ethical types in socionics. With your test it was alsways IEI, SEI, ESI, and EII. I have tested various other ethical types. One time I even tested as an ESFP. I never ever once tested LII or INTj
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I've been trying to find good examples of ESI and LII today but I am having a hard time coming up with stuff.
One more thing I would like to mention. I like red.
I frequently wear bright pink cloths. One of my nail polishes is orange, bright. Maybe I should post some of my favorite color combinations here. I like wearing glittery finger nail polish.
I know an ESE. before she has just gotten on my nerves. I will try to speak with her more and see what affect she has on me.
I do like two ESE's allot: jim carey and stevey wonder.
I have sent you a friend request. When you accept I will tag you in some pictures of the art work I have done and my nail polish that i draw on my nails.
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LOL.. look.. I think any type can like this.. :D \
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THIS IS MY TWIN SISTER
(http://s25.postimg.org/dwo1f6c7v/twin_sister.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
THIS IS MY OLDEST BROTHER
(http://s25.postimg.org/3y32sp2sb/oldest_brother.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
FREQUENT CHOICE OF COLORS FOR ME
(http://s25.postimg.org/49kj5gj8b/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
THIS IS MY DESKTOP WALLPAPER (i like the joker: his despair+action, the knife he is holding is an exiting show of power to me)
(http://s25.postimg.org/y6lcubdcr/Joker_4.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/y6lcubdcr/)
THIS IS MY EX BOYFRIEND SLE I find this picture attractive
(http://s25.postimg.org/5ag6guau3/ex_boyfriend_SLE.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5ag6guau3/)
MY OLDEST SISTER
(http://s25.postimg.org/ntbms5jyz/Capture.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ntbms5jyz/)
ME AND MY FRIEND ASHELEY
(http://s25.postimg.org/s9cvzr6u3/1005983_414675618648613_175950498_n.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/s9cvzr6u3/)
FREQUENT COLOR CHOICE
(http://s25.postimg.org/rvbk05mqj/971805_432081876907987_523345711_n.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/rvbk05mqj/)
MY MOMMA
(http://s25.postimg.org/nwechby3f/391444_259499617499548_1496781002_n.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/nwechby3f/)
i MADE THESE
(http://s25.postimg.org/bvswglqor/269249_361821563934019_2012749868_n.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/bvswglqor/)
i MADE THIS ALSO
(http://s25.postimg.org/akl584v2z/177661_295160157266827_560366662_o.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/akl584v2z/)
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Carrina, thanks for beautiful pictures and lots of information. :) I will not mention everything but some points only.
1) You said you are non materialistic and example you draw could be understood differently as regards to aspects. Do you consider yourself as a practical person?
2) The not nice music - could be Ego music. The music you like is very close to Ti music but has a soul too. The rhythm itself is Ti the voice closer to Fi. And it is definitely introverted.
3) What subjects did you do well at school, where did you work and why you decided to go for science now?
3) People say you should be a councillor. What do ou think yourself about it?
Please, don't think about relationship as criteria for your type and forget the difference between socionics and MBTI. I tried to explain to you about it but you firmly believe that the difference is huge when in fact it is not. I will explain to you about it on scype.
Have you got any pictures of your dad? How similar or different you are with your twin sister? Who are you more similar with mother or father or who in the family is more like you?
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Carrina, thanks for beautiful pictures and lots of information. :) I will not mention everything but some points only.
1) You said you are non materialistic and example you draw could be understood differently as regards to aspects. Do you consider yourself as a practical person? I consider myself to be very practicle but compared to some I could be more so. The SLE thinks I am practicle. The SLI thinks I am not. I think I am. My practicality has to do with people tho.
2) The not nice music - could be Ego music. The music you like is very close to Ti music but has a soul too. The rhythm itself is Ti the voice closer to Fi. And it is definitely introverted. I don't see how that could be Ti.. Ti is my lowest scoring element
3) What subjects did you do well at school, where did you work and why you decided to go for science now? Art was my best subject, music, history, then maybe science.
3) People say you should be a councillor. What do ou think yourself about it? I'm not sure exactly what you mean but I will answer how I can. I know I would be good at it. I am great at getting down to the bottom of things and helping people see their inner power. I have a deep connection with the various social issues that I would be dealing with.
Please, don't think about relationship as criteria for your type and forget the difference between socionics and MBTI. I tried to explain to you about it but you firmly believe that the difference is huge when in fact it is not. I will explain to you about it on scype.
Have you got any pictures of your dad? How similar or different you are with your twin sister? Who are you more similar with mother or father or who in the family is more like you?
I am a very good mixture between my mom and dad. He is practical always making things, she is a helper, yet she loves making things as well. He is stern and she is forgiving. I am in between them.
MY DAD
(http://s25.postimg.org/c5n3e3i3f/1039966_10201035226415934_1143329814_o.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/c5n3e3i3f/)
(http://s25.postimg.org/g9o26le1n/1040066_10201035234256130_93391560_o.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/g9o26le1n/)
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MY SISTER, BROTHER, SISTER IN LAW, AND CHILDREN
(http://s25.postimg.org/6ewx0da3f/883452_10200153443184752_1664953880_o.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6ewx0da3f/)
MY GRANPA (PAPA) HE IS MY FAVORITE
(http://s25.postimg.org/lows7k5ln/1044980_631924220176573_106477777_n.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/lows7k5ln/)
MY AUNT DAWN ALICE
(http://s25.postimg.org/mtqucxs2j/1072617_10201099713868080_1380879283_o.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/mtqucxs2j/)
GRANDMA DAWN AND BROTHER
(http://s25.postimg.org/58sx1klsr/1239149_199981316848957_551730885_o.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/58sx1klsr/)
GRANDPA FRANK
(http://s25.postimg.org/amrp94biz/1276225_202048219975600_1524092068_o.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/amrp94biz/)
MY BROTHER LUKE AND HIS KIDS
(http://s25.postimg.org/v0iu4ii57/1380691_10152035453711804_520299998_n.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/v0iu4ii57/)
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My twin and are very similar, yet I am much more mature. She has mental health issues. Other than that we are very similar. she may be more outgoing then me
ME AND MY TWIN (I was picking on her)
(http://s25.postimg.org/fmu7e6nh7/977866_532265586809104_596468332_o.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/fmu7e6nh7/)
MY UNCLES AND GRANDPA FRANK
(http://s25.postimg.org/rpzj1qyjf/10470280_285463268300761_3538610943709311499_o.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/rpzj1qyjf/)
ON A NATURE HIKE. i AM AT THE BOTTOM WITH MY SON POINITING UP
(http://s25.postimg.org/rnfnewuvv/469929_3149917278440_1382669566_o.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/rnfnewuvv/)
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LAST ONE!! ME N MY SISTER WERE ACTING SILLY TODAY.
(http://s25.postimg.org/qozacmhjv/Image19.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/qozacmhjv/) (http://s25.postimg.org/664e7k3mj/Image20.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/664e7k3mj/) (http://s25.postimg.org/x5892pq3f/Image21.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/x5892pq3f/) (http://s25.postimg.org/ibtlhyicb/Image22.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ibtlhyicb/)
(http://s25.postimg.org/qg1pmp4rf/Image23.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/qg1pmp4rf/) (http://s25.postimg.org/rkvrs2r8b/Image24.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/rkvrs2r8b/) (http://s25.postimg.org/9xik7m6or/Image25.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/9xik7m6or/) (http://s25.postimg.org/9w410gfh7/Image26.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/9w410gfh7/)
(http://s25.postimg.org/vz8uhnr6j/Image27.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/vz8uhnr6j/) (http://s25.postimg.org/dv5tx0ti3/Image28.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/dv5tx0ti3/)
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Hi Carrina, beautiful family you have got. I like you favourite grandpa too. He looks terrific. ))
Can you tell me which grandpa is the father of you mother and which one of your father? Is grandpa Frank the father of your mother?
What about you brother Luke, can you tall me about him - what is he doing professionally? Is he your older brother? How similar are you with him?
About being practical can you find out from your friends SLE and LSI what do they mean? Everyone put their own meaning into words and that is why we have trouble to understand each other about your type. There is more than words can say. Psychoanalysis is not simple and easy, especially if you try something to make evident for another person.
Ti- music is a simple beat, evenly and repetitive. I am talking just about this song and not all your music at the moment. Like this one
http://youtu.be/woNcegfZbbA (http://youtu.be/woNcegfZbbA)
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Carrina, as regards to you professional choices, you like music, history and people say you could be a great councillor. This subjects are different from science, why science then and not history or working with people who have ethical problems? What do you study now and how do you find science in general and in particular? Is it an exciting subject? What do you like the most in science?
You must like kids if you want to be a teacher at school. Do you want to teach small kids or big kids or different ages?
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I am sort of up and down about believing in some things in Socionics but this ti music makes me laugh because it sounds stupid to me. Maybe model a is more accurate than I think....
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Hi Carrina, beautiful family you have got. I like you favourite grandpa too. He looks terrific. ))
Can you tell me which grandpa is the father of you mother and which one of your father? Is grandpa Frank the father of your mother? He is the father of my father. he is the "spiritual leader" I love him for the experience he has given me. I feel that I have lived a life with many blessings. If he were alive today I would be asking him questions every day. He was quiet and studious. He studied religions. His job was to take a large board and go to New York city and teach people as they walked by. He would interpret the bible for them. He was very much an anarchy type individual, although he didn't believe in violence, but he was violent as a young man, as an older man he believed in nonviolent protest and education of the public. I will give you his website address. and another picture of him.(The first two pictures are my aunts at Occupy Wallstreet. they are my fathers sisters.) (http://s25.postimg.org/ivhitkk7v/296864_2361412587832_44207878_n.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ivhitkk7v/) (http://s25.postimg.org/a1qmcgx97/391973_2507263194006_1666909697_n.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/a1qmcgx97/) (http://s25.postimg.org/5q20ngqcb/883452_10200153443184752_1664953880_o.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5q20ngqcb/) (http://s25.postimg.org/hmtn7xs9n/901262_10200703760251614_1955736194_o.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/hmtn7xs9n/)
(http://s25.postimg.org/r3jgekc4b/1936013_1168330521526_6820388_n.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/r3jgekc4b/) (http://s25.postimg.org/jou4m6q8r/1936013_1168343121841_6831771_n.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/jou4m6q8r/) (http://s25.postimg.org/ib2hqvqzf/1936013_1170019123740_7482340_n.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ib2hqvqzf/) Papa used to have passover with us every year to try and show us to accept every culture
What about you brother Luke, can you tall me about him - what is he doing professionally? Is he your older brother? he is my older brother. he has looked out for me allot. we are pretty close. there is some physcological distance there, as is with everyone that I know. but yeah we are pretty close friends. we help eachother out. I loan him money and he works on my car, I watch his kids if he wants to go do something. How similar are you with him?
My brother and are are very similar, not the same. He has had drug problems but he is a musician (struggling usician Lol.. ) and a hard laborer. we make music sometimes together.
a
About being practical can you find out from your friends SLE and LSI (its not LSI its SLI) I am always telling the SLE what to do, he is always acting like a teenager and not taking care of his kid. The SLI has the same problems with me that I do with the sLE. The SLE is overly concerned with partying and I always try to convince him to go work as a cell phone sailsman. he says he wants to but doesn't know how to get a job (LOL he doesn't want to ) SLI tells me to worry about more practicle things, tells me to do more housework, he tries to tell me that I have allot of potential and don't date certain guys. We disagree on allot of things but we are also similar. what do they mean? Everyone put their own meaning into words and that is why we have trouble to understand each other about your type. There is more than words can say. Psychoanalysis is not simple and easy, especially if you try something to make evident for another person.
Ti- music is a simple beat, evenly and repetitive. I am talking just about this song and not all your music at the moment. Like this one
http://youtu.be/woNcegfZbbA (http://youtu.be/woNcegfZbbA) woah. i love this>most generally the music that I like has a beat that changes. The thing I like is the guitar going back and forth. this reminds me of a clown circus during break!! omg!! I love this.. Any music that changes tempo IS MY HEART!! I love the tempo changes beyond explanation.. omg I'm listententing to this now it is captivating... Its amazing.. thank you for that. wtf this is great. jeez...
The tempo change makes me want to cry and dance. It makes me want to jump around with a dance partner. It is effecting me amazingly. People think I don't like music but I am just picky. Its amazing that you were able to pick somehting out that I would love so much. (It's over now and that was invigorating)
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Carrina, as regards to you professional choices, you like music, history and people say you could be a great councillor. This subjects are different from science, why science then and not history or working with people who have ethical problems? I can be a science teacher and teach kids not to conform to the way society takes information and puts locks on it. I can teach them to think for themselves, show them better ways to learn, encourage them. What do you study now and how do you find science in general and in particular? I am fascinated by quantum science. I want to understand it. I am doing college on the computer and it is hard for me. I want to do it in a classroom. I chose Environmental Science so I can help make communities that harbor better health and sustainability (the children don't need foodstamps, they can pick fruit and vegetables, herbs are everywhere, people don't buy tea, they can make it, farmer can be more taken care of in a city like this. I know that our society is moving toward this (politicians have already started the plans, agenda 21 is not a conspiracy, I plan to be a part of it in the future if I can get my self on track.. )https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zn8MRKOskwIs it an exciting subject? What do you like the most in science? I want to understand particle physics but I have to get myself into a physical classroom instead of this internet stuff or I will fail.. its very hard to explain what exites me about science. I want to understand how humans have consciousness in them. I want to know what DNA is, I HATE genetically modified DNA.. but I want to understand Micro Science as it relates to maybe religion and spirituality. I cried about imagining visiting this one day: http://youtu.be/xJwJgHGDllE?t=5m59s (http://youtu.be/xJwJgHGDllE?t=5m59s)
You must like kids if you want to be a teacher at school. Do you want to teach small kids or big kids or different ages?
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I am sort of up and down about believing in some things in Socionics but this ti music makes me laugh because it sounds stupid to me. Maybe model a is more accurate than I think....
Its strange to me that you had that reaction. this made me want to dance like a maniac.
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I want to teach kids about 11-15
This the age that most of them get lost in the system. I wish I could help these kids where nobody helped me. I would pay attention to every kid and find out the best way they would learn and cater to them. I would also be very stern, as I am with certain things of great importance.
I think I would also get bored of this in a year or two. Then I would go back to school for physics but I would have to get a math tutor.
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I want to teach kids about 11-15
This the age that most of them get lost in the system. I wish I could help these kids where nobody helped me. I would pay attention to every kid and find out the best way they would learn and cater to them. I would also be very stern, as I am with certain things of great importance.
I think I would also get bored of this in a year or two. Then I would go back to school for physics but I would have to get a math tutor.
Carrina, I see that you relate strongly to scientific field and I have got the feeling that deep inside you may feel the belonging to the world of science. It is not all about teaching but about growing as a personality for you - that's how I see it from our words. Teaching is more like a step into the self- realisation path. Is it right?
I wanted to ask what fascinates you about big bang machine in particular? And what attracts you in quantum physics? The subjects sound over complicated to me and rather abstract. it is absolutely different world and different language, lots of schemes to read and to understand. Are you good at it?
Ti is about clear structure not matter what is it about. It is the very starting point of every object of study. I found the actual dance and you can see how steady and clear are the movements, how rational are they - I would say perfectly logical, predictable and stable, no extra unnecessary movements. It is because Ti is a structural logic and is responsible for the clear gut form and shape - formal logic. I expect all Superego types to like it because of Ti is a value function for them. Sirtaki is Superego - Id because the second part is more lively and loud.
I will show you more interesting music later.
http://youtu.be/dwQuT3JYuMo (http://youtu.be/dwQuT3JYuMo)
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Carrina, this is also logic in music but Te and Ego, also very beautiful:
http://youtu.be/w8EXDtoGfrs (http://youtu.be/w8EXDtoGfrs)
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no non no no no.. teaching is about fulfilling a need in the world. It's about picking up the slack where others (in very important positions) have failed.
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Carrina, this is also logic in music but Te and Ego, also very beautiful:
http://youtu.be/w8EXDtoGfrs (http://youtu.be/w8EXDtoGfrs)
This is brilliant. I love it. I listen to music like this all the time. especially while driving around.. allot of times I roll down the windows so all the uncultured hillbillies will have to hear it too.
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The first one is very beautiful. I would do that dance.. hahaha... here's something I like.. it reminds me of it..
THE GREATEST PART ABOUT THIS ONE: THEY ARE FUEDING CULTURES WHOM HAVE HATE FOR EACHOTHER. THIS SCENE PORTRAYS THEM LAYING THOSE THINGS ASIDE AND JUST BEING HUMAN, SHARING JOY TOGETHER.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvr8AjT0aD0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvr8AjT0aD0)
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I'm not trying to convince you of any type but I'll tell you about a sort of disagreement I've had with an LII over the education system. I was sort of between moving out of where I lived and finding a new place.... so staying in the same house as her with quite a few other people who were all artists. Two of them were doing a masters (second degree) in fine art in a good art school in London. Despite being quite capable they had both tested for slight dyslexia. As a result they were given quite a lot of computer equipment for free (I'm guessing roughly £1500s worth). I think everyone in the house knew that it wasn't something that they really needed but more like a lucky windfall from the Government. I had started to study Socionics at that time and knew she was LII but I didn't know that much then. She got REALLY quite angry and sort of red faced about the equipment thing and I was surprised how passionate and frustrated she was over something political that didn't actually directly affect her. She saw them (IEE and EII ) as being selfish and not thinking about whether excepting the equipment was ethically ok or fair knowing that the money could be spent on someone who needed more. The atmosphere in the room was quite Fe intense and me and my ILI friend made the situation 10 times worse by saying the wrong thing. We had started to argue something along the lines of "there is no fair test to test for fairness so you are simply thinking too much about it". I had not seen her angry before but that really did it.
You said you went out with an ILI before. Did you ever experience this sort of "I don't care" sort of attitude from him?
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I'm not trying to convince you of any type but I'll tell you about a sort of disagreement I've had with an LII over the education system. I was sort of between moving out of where I lived and finding a new place.... so staying in the same house as her with quite a few other people who were all artists. Two of them were doing a masters (second degree) in fine art in a good art school in London. Despite being quite capable they had both tested for slight dyslexia. As a result they were given quite a lot of computer equipment for free (I'm guessing roughly £1500s worth). I think everyone in the house knew that it wasn't something that they really needed but more like a lucky windfall from the Government. I had started to study Socionics at that time and knew she was LII but I didn't know that much then. She got REALLY quite angry and sort of red faced about the equipment thing and I was surprised how passionate and frustrated she was over something political that didn't actually directly affect her. She saw them (IEE and EII ) as being selfish and not thinking about whether excepting the equipment was ethically ok or fair knowing that the money could be spent on someone who needed more. The atmosphere in the room was quite Fe intense and me and my ILI friend made the situation 10 times worse by saying the wrong thing. We had started to argue something along the lines of "there is no fair test to test for fairness so you are simply thinking too much about it". I had not seen her angry before but that really did it. first of all, it was none of her business. not the financial "taking" part, and not the "shame on you" part. Furthermore, I don't think you said the wrong thing, I would have said something similar.. She was probably more envious. I hate people like that. I would have vigorously taken up for the EII and IEE
You said you went out with an ILI before. Did you ever experience this sort of "I don't care" sort of attitude from him?
I didn't experience that with him, atleast not more than any other guys I have dated. I experienced him caring waaay too much about shit that was obviouslyy brainwashed into his head by the media. He would have taken handouts but he didn't want people who he thought were below him getting things "for free". I definately had a sneaking suspicion that he was an LII not an ILI.. but some of the others on the WSS website (ILI's) I have had to block out of pure annoyance at their completely one sided point
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iITT9FT_Jn4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iITT9FT_Jn4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dakd7EIgBE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dakd7EIgBE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx0xCI1jaUM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx0xCI1jaUM)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU5pKS-roVk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU5pKS-roVk)
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2cellos are definitely rational music and Ego. I like M. Jackson too. he likes glittery clothes must be a sensing introvert? Not sure about his type. HIs music seems to be pretty static, possibly Superego type.
Carrina, you are definitely a rational type- you quick to judge and pretty firm in your opinion - I noticed that. ) I also noticed that you are very sincere and direct in expressing your thoughts and emotions in public, is it right or not? Did you have any trouble because of that in the past? Did anybody of your close ones ever mentioned something about it? Or they are all like you?
I also want you to think carefully and tell me who from your parents does express emotions exactly in the same way like you do - father or mother or any of grandparents? I want to know what did you take from you parents - facial similarity and character features?
Which part of your attitude and behaviour you copy from you father and what from you mother? I remember you mentioned mother as SEI and father?
You said that you think after a while of teaching at school you will most likely get bored. Why do you think this way?
I did like the video with different cultures merging too, BTW. It is also pretty rational. )
Please, do not rush and answer all the questions.
Are you happy at the moment the way we discuss you possible type?
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2cellos are definitely rational music and Ego. I like M. Jackson too. he likes glittery clothes must be a sensing introvert? Not sure about his type. HIs music seems to be pretty static, possibly Superego type. Its the creativity and musical geneous, the ability, creativity, the emotions, when I like music nothing is out of place. Its more about becoming one with the artists.
Carrina, you are definitely a rational type- you quick to judge and pretty firm in your opinion - I noticed that. ) I also noticed that you are very sincere and direct in expressing your thoughts and emotions in public, is it right or not? yes and no. I feel that I only do it for a purpose. i try not to do it but sometimes the means is ok for the end. I don't follow social norms if I don't want to. I also follow them just so that I don't cause a stir. Did you have any trouble because of that in the past? Did anybody of your close ones ever mentioned something about it? Or they are all like you? Im sorry I have to speak with you over skype about this. there is so much to tell you.
I also want you to think carefully and tell me who from your parents does express emotions exactly in the same way like you do - father or mother or any of grandparents? I want to know what did you take from you parents - facial similarity and character features?This question will take allot of thought, I have to get back to you on this because I have to get ready for work.
Which part of your attitude and behaviour you copy from you father and what from you mother? I remember you mentioned mother as SEI and father? father is LSI. I take from her my love of colors, my ability to compramise and care about people, I take from him my aggressiveness and abruptness.. also my controlling behavior, my judgements. my fathers family is where my cutural understanding are from eg: anarchy, simple living, warrior mentality, worldly cares, thinking outside the box..
You said that you think after a while of teaching at school you will most likely get bored. Why do you think this way? I know it takes a very upbeat person to do this for long periods of time. I would do it for that long because thats how long it would take me to build the next stage of my plan for getting a Masters Degree in science
I did like the video with different cultures merging too, BTW. It is also pretty rational. )
Please, do not rush and answer all the questions.
Are you happy at the moment the way we discuss you possible type? uhh i guess so. I should mention I have some post tramatic stressors still from when I was younger. My personality is still coming into itself.
I feel like I could do a better job explaining this but I must go to work now. maybe we can skype in about 10 hours? what is your time zone?
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I should mention that I am pretty unpredictable. My judgements are pretty subject to change. I never actually commit myself to any particular judgements. I have a few that I can't sway on, like respect me and my family. Other than that, anything that I think, I know that through time I will come to understand in different ways. I guess thats why I don't like certain types that can't "see outside the box". To me it is obvious that each factor changes the outcome. anyway, I also change my plans as I am acting out on them..
Its possible that I am an Irrational type.
I also see reasons for rational, but generally I don't like people or things that are predictable. I am as unpredictable as it gets. maybe I need to learn a little more here because I don't know the difference between rational and irrational (other than the above.)
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I make judgements ahead of time. When I am speaking with someone with a different point of view or different facts, I expand my point of view to accept thier perspective, then move on with my understanding.
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Carrina, I am near London so it must be Greenwich. :)
Don't look for irrational type for yourself - 100% rational. Your music, your pictures, videos say it all.
Could it be that you did not develop and discover your true self yet? You actually said it yourself - I just repeat the thought because I liked it. )
For example, you cared and worked and cared. But self- realisation means not just care about others - it means to develop your inner potential. So far you are heading for science - very good ambition. I guess you feel abilities within yourself and interest usually guides us towards our abilities. Intuitively. If we get into something by mistake we very quickly realise - this is wrong for me. If you plan degree in science you may well be a scientific type- at least we can say 1 big fat point for Carrina being actually logical type. :)
I am not sure why you do not want to allow the idea that you can be a logical type? I remember when I first came to the forum one guy liked what I was saying and complemented me on this "woman - a logician". That meant I am very cool. ;D
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I saw you recent video on facebook. Can you post it here as well? I think you were pretty open and honest about the questions. I felt that it was not easy for you to answer them, a bit tensive, yes/no? I think this video sows even more clearly that you are the logical type.
As regards rationality -irrationality we all have a bit of everything. If you generally plan ahead and think what you are going to do or to say - as if you try to forsee what may happen - and you actually try to fulfil your plan to the end then it is rationality. There are a few things we can pin point as criteria for being rational. Fir example being preoccupied with respect (Ti- value) and purpose (Te-value) make you a very obvious rational logical type. People are often assholes (weak ethics), people don't make sense very often ( rationality and Ti- value) and etc.
Think why respect is so important to you? It seems to me that it is for you a key value. What will happen to you if you lose this value? What happen to people if they will lose this value? Who taught you in the family above all to have respect to yourself and to others?
Think why purpose is so important for you? What will happen if you will not pay attention to purpose? What will happen if the people around you will not pay attention to purpose?
If you think about these questions you will come better to understand yourself and your values. They are at the core of your identity.
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(http://s25.postimg.org/3p2quiwd7/Be_Funky_Hope_jpg.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/3p2quiwd7/)
the tattoo I am going to get
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First of all, I don't have an obsession with respect. It is one of my only core values. Respect encompasses all other possible ethical points: care for others, be empethetic, treat others as if you were treating yourself.
Its not as much as about me and respect, its more about me and disrespect. You can't truly care for yourself or those close to you if you don't care for everyone else as much as yourself.
That is respect. Its about everyone contributing to a prosperous and healthy environment.
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Why is this a value of mine? One reason is as good as the next. I could write a biography for you but it would leave you depressed. Lol. Its hard to answer a question in this forum that has multiple answers.
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Last time I cried it was because I found out that one of my closest friends didn't share a very important value to me. Of course I held back the tears and didn't show anyone I was upset. obviously ethical
The time right before that I was crying about social conditions that don't affect me in any way..obvously ethical
All of my goals are just "starting points".clearly irrational The starting point is that I care about the social situations in our world. We both know these are goals that an ethical individual would have. If you have been paying attention you may have noticed; I am always speaking about values and ethics, also about affecting change in the world. So I could be wrong but possible extravert as well.
I don't know if I am even going to go back to school. I hope that the situation presents itself, I think I am going to, but if my life doesn't have a space for that, I won't do it.irrational, we both know it MY PERSONAL Accosiations with the Dance Scene of fiddler on the roof was an ethical problem that was laid asside for people to have fun. The opposing culture crashed the party (irrational) everyone was getting drunk, tables were flying.. Your associations to this scene might be logical, but mine are ethical and irrational.
I am very sure that I am not a logical type, or a rational type. I think for me to be persuaded to take on such a profile, I would have to know the reasons were better than mine.
If you no longer want to spend any time typing me with your method, I understand. I came here to be typed and don't really know if you are messing with me or not. Again, if you don't want to type me, I would prefer not to waste any more of your time.
My appologies by the way.
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Carrina, are you afraid of being messed up? Are you quite conscious about the fact that people can brainwash you?
What you write in red as "we both know it is right" is not right really from objective stand point but very right from the subjective perspective of Ti as Jung described it. The vision of the world depends heavily on how Ti- type see the world and he or she expects people see it in the same way because it is so obvious to him or her. If somebody tries to bring across a different view Ti -type feels as if somebody wants to crash his world - the line of thought in his head and this what annoys him. You can only accept the vision which coincide with yours. this is very natural to LII.
I don't think anything will help you to see the different you as we can see it from the outside. You heavily rely on your vision of yourself, your judgement.
I wanted to talk to you on scype but as I said earlier you are not ready for a change of view about yourself. The other factor is that you most likely don't trust me as an expert. You did not answer on some of my important questions in this thread. Therefore I believe it is better not to waste each other's time. Saying all that I can add that you are always welcome back when you will have a doubt about ethics- logics and I would be happy to teach you my approach. I recommend it to anyone because then you can see your information with a completely different eyes - you can revaluate it as an outsider, more objectively. You don't have a lot of information about socionics yet, and what you have is obscured. this is one of the reason why you cannot see the points I am making. Please, don't be offended. I just have to mention it because this is an obvious factor and it is not my fault. I think me and Malcolm tried hard.
Whatever we discussed here I don't want you top have bad thoughts or memories. Not matter what your type is you are an individual and that what matters. You have huge range of decent qualities to your character and I am sure you succeed in life and realise your dreams for yourself and your family.
If you ever have problems in the relationship you are welcome to contact me for support because I am a psychologist as well and I charge much less that other psychologists do because my priority is socionics.
It was lovely to talk to you.))
The topic stays open as I am not sure if Malcolm still has some questions and want to carry on talking to yo about your type.
If you want to discuss your type in SI on facebook - you can give a link - very welcome to do this. :)
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Carrina, are you afraid of being messed up? Are you quite conscious about the fact that people can brainwash you?
What you write in red as "we both know it is right" is not right really from objective stand point but very right from the subjective perspective of Ti as Jung described it. The vision of the world depends heavily on how Ti- type see the world and he or she expects people see it in the same way because it is so obvious to him or her. If somebody tries to bring across a different view Ti -type feels as if somebody wants to crash his world - the line of thought in his head and this what annoys him. You can only accept the vision which coincide with yours. this is very natural to LII. this is not true of me at all.
I don't think anything will help you to see the different you as we can see it from the outside. You heavily rely on your vision of yourself, your judgement.
I wanted to talk to you on scype but as I said earlier you are not ready for a change of view about yourself. I am quite ready and have been able to place myself in the shoes of many types.The other factor is that you most likely don't trust me as an expert. You did not answer on some of my important questions in this thread. Therefore I believe it is better not to waste each other's time. Saying all that I can add that you are always welcome back when you will have a doubt about ethics- logics and I would be happy to teach you my approach. I recommend it to anyone because then you can see your information with a completely different eyes - you can revaluate it as an outsider, more objectively. You don't have a lot of information about socionics yet, and what you have is obscured. this is one of the reason why you cannot see the points I am making. I am very able to see the points you are making. It is also possible for me to see that your point of view is limited and your view here will not change. Please, don't be offended. I just have to mention it because this is an obvious factor and it is not my fault. I think me and Malcolm tried hard. I am not offended. I'm sure you did try hard but it is not professional practice for a socionics practitioner to force a type on someone. We both know this Olga. It is very frusterating to me. I understand you. I understand where you are coming from. I also understand myself and how you are skewing my personality to fit your ideas. I can only try so hard to show you. Again, everything is okay but we are in disagreement and may have to part ways now.
Whatever we discussed here I don't want you top have bad thoughts or memories. Not matter what your type is you are an individual and that what matters. You have huge range of decent qualities to your character and I am sure you succeed in life and realise your dreams for yourself and your family.
If you ever have problems in the relationship you are welcome to contact me for support because I am a psychologist as well and I charge much less that other psychologists do because my priority is socionics.
It was lovely to talk to you.))
The topic stays open as I am not sure if Malcolm still has some questions and want to carry on talking to yo about your type.
If you want to discuss your type in SI on facebook - you can give a link - very welcome to do this. :)
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Carrina, it is a shame that you feel as if I forced anything on you. If I would force my opinion on you, I would do it differently. I would say just that - you don't know much socionics and this is a fact. In this thread you mentioned a lot of times that you are not sure you understand right this and that...This is very true. You have very obscure view of dichotomies, you haven't met ESIs in real life but at the same time you are sure that you know better. If you know everything better, why did you need a consultancy in a first place? You should be satisfied with typing in Jacks group.
But this is not the case. You asked for my opinion and now you are saying that I forced my opinion on you. This is a joke. What did you exactly expected from me? I cannot say that you are not LII as I see you this way. I cannot see that I am in doubt because I am not. Does it really sound like a forced opinion? When you go to the doctor and he or she will give you his opinion - do you consider it as a forcing as well? May be it is exactly opposite and you have an issue with Se? This could easily explain why you feel that people always mess you and you mind about. If you would be an ethical type you could see the motives of people more clearly and would have less problems in understanding people.
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Carrina, it is a shame that you feel as if I forced anything on you. If I would force my opinion on you, I would do it differently. I would say just that - you don't know much socionics you have and this is a fact. In this thread you mentioned a lot of times that you are not sure you understand right this and that...This is very trueyou just did it again.. Olga, you don't exactly knkow where my weaknesses in socionics lay. . You have very obscure view of dichotomies, you haven't met ESIs in real life but at the same time you are sure that you know better.I no longer believe that I am an ESI. I now know my type. If you know everything better, why did you need a consultancy in a first place? You should be satisfied with typing in Jacks group.I was very unhappy with that typing, it just didn't feel right. Hence why I moved to another professional for assistance.
But this is not the case. You asked for my opinion and now you are saying that I forced my opinion on you.I have told you that I am not LII or Ti at all. I should know this about myself, you should have listened. This is a joke. What did you exactly expected from me? I cannot say that you are not LII as I see you this way. I cannot see that I am in doubt because I am not. Does it really sound like a forced opinion? When you go to the doctor and he or she will give you his opinion - do you consider it as a forcing as well? May be it is exactly opposite and you have an issue with Se? This could easily explain why you feel that people always mess you and you mind about. If you would be an ethical type you could see the motives of people more clearly and would have less problems in understanding people.I have no problems understanding people. I have a problem understanding the ethical problems with people. I understand people, I completely understand your points. but coming from my own perspective, it would be very wise of you to take what I say of myself as fact. You cannot insist on a lead function that I know I do not have. That is improper practice. I'm sorry that "this is a joke" to you. I had allot of respect for you. You HAVE attempted to coerce me. It is a fact at this point. I tip my hat to you and wish you all the best of you associative socionics.
One last point. I agree with associative socionics. But MY ASSOCIATIONS should not be assumed by you. You have to aske me what MY ASSOCIATIONS are, not tell me what they are, If you continue to do this, you will fail. I am SEE. If you are very serious about ASSOCIATIVE SOCIONICS, you will reevaluate MY ASSOCIATIONS in accordance with SEE. You cannot succeed with using these tactics of IMPOSING UNREAL ASSOCIATIONS on others.
\You may do exactly as you wish. I am offended at my own self, first, for being in a position to speak to you this way. Second, because my respect for you has had to be surpassed so that I can put forth this understanding, and third, that I havent been accepting of your answers, as it is in the slight, disrespectful to you. I am dearly sorry for that, and that we could not agree. I have given you some advice and I hope you will reevaluate your position in the future for your own benefit.
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Carrina, you don't know how my approach works and give me advice - this is a joke. You are not ESI and not SEE - don't make a joke of yourself - this is my advice to you.
You have a very wrong understanding of Ti and how it comes to express itself on one hand, and on the other - you don't want to listen, you believe you know better. This was exactly what caused the problem. May be later you will see yourself as LII but will blame me again for something I did not do in fact.
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carina:.... I have no problems understanding people. I have a problem understanding the ethical problems with people. I understand people, I completely understand your points. [/quote]
How does it make you ethical type? What is the difference between understanding people and ethical problems exactly? What is it you understand - information? That is logic.
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Firstly I think you want to have some space to think for yourself right. Being told how things are when you can't see the same reasoning doesn't help. I noticed you mentioned on WSS that your dad is LSI and that you don't really get on. I'd suggest that the trouble you're having with Olga's approach (you feel that logical rules are being forced on you) is that it might seem quite close to LSI behaviour (remember Olga is Se creative). I watched your last video and I remember you saying "some people are too aggressive". You don't have to answer obviously but do you mean your Dad? I have an LSI dad and I find him far too controlling. As a result I tend to think very carefully before excepting other people's logic and sort of see ti as a potential means of manipulation... I was not as quick to get to LII as Olga but I have no problem in typing you LII Carrina .. I can see you are a smart person and your interest in science alone should be a big hint of being a researcher. Maybe have more of a think about things. If you come to realise that you are not SEE or have some questions you are very welcome to come back...
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9_Novvwzpto Nigella Lawson SEE
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Firstly I think you want to have some space to think for yourself right.I have to apply the theory to real life to see if it fits. I don't spontaneously remember everything I think do and say Being told how things are when you can't see the same reasoning doesn't help. I can place myself in this position and see if it is natural, it is not. I don't want to keep going back and forth over and over on the same thing. I noticed you mentioned on WSS that your dad is LSI and that you don't really get on. I'd suggest that the trouble you're having with Olga's approach (you feel that logical rules are being forced on you) is that it might seem quite close to LSI behaviour (remember Olga is Se creative)I am not finding olga as aggressive. I watched your last video and I remember you saying "some people are too aggressive". You don't have to answer obviously but do you mean your Dad? I have an LSI dad and I find him far too controlling. yes, I mean my dad, and he's not aggressive, he is abusive and a slightly phycopathic individual. that situation is clearly different. As a result I tend to think very carefully before excepting other people's logic and sort of see ti as a potential means of manipulation... I was not as quick to get to LII as Olga but I have no problem in typing you LII Carrina .. I can see you are a smart person and your interest in science My interest in science is SOCIAL CHANGE. I tried to explain that a billion times. alone should be a big hint of being a researcherI failed my chemistry class, Logician still? . Maybe have more of a think about things. If you come to realise that you are not SEE or have some questions you are very welcome to come back...I may very well not be SEE, but I already know for sure that I am not an LII. I am going to continue to type myself until I am comfortable with a typing. I'm not going to sit here everyday begging someone to understand me so that they can help me go no where with my progress.
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carina:.... I have no problems understanding people. I have a problem understanding the ethical problems with people. I understand people, I completely understand your points.
How does it make you ethical type? What is the difference between understanding people and ethical problems exactly? What is it you understand - information? That is logic.
[/quote]
this specifically doesn't make me an ethical type. what makes me an ethical type is that I am motivated toward social change, motivated by my need to make my relationships go smoothly, my desire to effect positive social change, as I have stated about a thousand times by now.
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My biggest issue is this. Ti is one of my least favorite things. I am not a Ti lead. I will not waste my time entertaing this any more. I am going to blow up if you keep trying to push that as a fact when I know it isn't. I would sooner say that I am Ti POLR then Ti lead. I am baffled..
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Carrina, you are very safe blow up here. :) But of course it is not that I would want you to do. However, after the blow up you may feel better and change you mind at least about something.
We still here and help you to understand at least something about your type.
I think you mixing up blocks Ego and Superego in the model A of LII. I mean you put much more weight on Superego functions Fi+ Se. In socionics we call it a mask or a persona. You see clearly these functions in yourself and they seem more important to you then Ego block functions. Could it be this way?
People very often do not realise their own lead function because it is sooo natural like breathing. People just do not pay attention to it but they better see their creative or role function. Please, consider this possibility. LII has as Ego - thinking but thinking is so natural to him, that he hardly consciously register that he is constantly thinking about something. It is also very natural to analyse the information but this quality of analysis is also very intrinsic to him. To the degree that what he does not see - has got no meaning attached.
You did not answer all the questions I asked which is a shame as it could have helped you a lot for understanding yourself and you type. But I am aware that we are in the open forum.
Ti-types do not have to study well - they can go straight into practice and just rely on their natural qualities. LIIs can fail exam. My husband LII could not understand the question and start panicking - he was led from exams - fail!
If you want to be comfortable with typing - you may feel comfortable but it does not mean that the result will be true. However if you consider that we do psycho- analysis, then it is the relationship with psychoanalyst which can be difficult at times. I can understand that you may be annoyed with me but Malcolm did not say any wrong word to you. I would suggest try and listen to him.
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carina:.... I have no problems understanding people. I have a problem understanding the ethical problems with people. I understand people, I completely understand your points.
How does it make you ethical type? What is the difference between understanding people and ethical problems exactly? What is it you understand - information? That is logic.
this specifically doesn't make me an ethical type. what makes me an ethical type is that I am motivated toward social change, motivated by my need to make my relationships go smoothly, my desire to effect positive social change, as I have stated about a thousand times by now.
[/quote]
It is just a conscious value of yours - it fits well with superego type in general and superego block of model A for LII in particular. Did you rad anything of my theory, for example about superego types? It is very rational preference of social change - but it is general for all 4 types - superego types in particular. It is what Young would call Superego self- realisation. This makes you strongly Superego-type but does not mean ethical type. If you find difficult to understand ethical problems - that makes you automatically logical type. Please, be specific and explain what ethical problems do you mean?
You don't need to prove anything to me and Malcolm, just carry on honestly and openly ( as you can) answering questions. Don't think bad staff about as if we try to coerce you into something - this alone makes you soooo logical and LII ( suspicious mind because of troubled ethics). Understand, that we are helping you to see at least something more clearly. Because we see that you need help we are just too kind. Otherwise just based on what you think about me personally anyone else would already let you be in doubt - who cares!
On the other hand if you don't want our help anymore - you are free to go. :)
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carina:.... I have no problems understanding people. I have a problem understanding the ethical problems with people. I understand people, I completely understand your points.
How does it make you ethical type? What is the difference between understanding people and ethical problems exactly? What is it you understand - information? That is logic.
this specifically doesn't make me an ethical type. what makes me an ethical type is that I am motivated toward social change, motivated by my need to make my relationships go smoothly, my desire to effect positive social change, as I have stated about a thousand times by now.
It is just a conscious value of yours - it fits well with superego type in general and superego block of model A for LII in particular. Did you rad anything of my theory, for example about superego types? It is very rational preference of social change - but it is general for all 4 types - superego types in particular. It is what Young would call Superego self- realisation. This makes you strongly Superego-type but does not mean ethical type. If you find difficult to understand ethical problems - that makes you automatically logical type. Please, be specific and explain what ethical problems do you mean?
You don't need to prove anything to me and Malcolm, just carry on honestly and openly ( as you can) answering questions. Don't think bad staff about as if we try to coerce you into something - this alone makes you soooo logical and LII ( suspicious mind because of troubled ethics). Understand, that we are helping you to see at least something more clearly. Because we see that you need help we are just too kind. Otherwise just based on what you think about me personally anyone else would already let you be in doubt - who cares!
On the other hand if you don't want our help anymore - you are free to go. :)
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I am burnt out thinking about these things. They make no sense. I am not oparating logically, I am attempting to and I can't do it. thats the thing you aren't getting here. No way in hell I am Ti lead. If you can find a way to prove it then fine but until then I don't have time to entertain it.
I cannot sit here and read all this stuff and understand it applied to reality, my memories do not catalog these things. I will take a break. I cannot pull up one page of socionics literature and understand the writings. It is excruciatingly frusterating to try and force myself to do it. I just don't understand the logic. I don't know why but let me explain:
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Extraversion_and_introversion (http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Extraversion_and_introversion)
that page for example makes no flippin sense to me. I can relate to things in both categories but I just am looking at it, forgetting what I am reading, getting bored, trying to remember how I act, etc. I just can't apply it to real life. I don't like the vocabulary that is used. I just don't get it
Maybe I am getting too frusterated at this point. I'm not going to give up but I will take a break for now. AND STOP SAYING I AM LII.. PLEASE.. I AM NOT LII.
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Carrina, you are hard work ;D Just like my clever husband who understands so many things but can be confused by something very simple like counting.
Break is good. I would suggest you forget about your type for a while and just start learn typing. By typing others you will better understand yourself after a while. Honestly. I would suggest to begin studying my method of typing. I am absolutely positive that you will be a very smart student. You do need to change the direction and come to understand your type from a different way in relating to it.
We do have from time to time people who wishes to be typed. You would need to read a bit of theory, ask questions if you don't understand and then apply your knowledge in practice. ;)
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Okay, Olga, thank you for the advice. would you consider IEE please?
At this point I am fairly certain that Fi is in my conscious ring and dominates much of my behaviour.. but there is that small bit of uncertainty. I am also fairly certain that I am not a Ti lead. Please take that into consideration.
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I am glad you are getting closer to What we think about you. It is surely a progress that you see yourself as an intuitive type. If you decide that you need help just go back to our discussion and think about some questions which you did not provide the answers. I asked them that you think about the answers and if you find the answers - it may help you to see something else.
May be it is a good idea to talk to Elena as she is ESFJ. She should see are you logical or ethical type if you ask her to type you by Skype video link.
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I am glad you are getting closer to What we think about you. It is surely a progress that you see yourself as an intuitive type. If you decide that you need help just go back to our discussion and think about some questions which you did not provide the answers. I asked them that you think about the answers and if you find the answers - it may help you to see something else.
May be it is a good idea to talk to Elena as she is ESFJ. She should see are you logical or ethical type if you ask her to type you by Skype video link.
I have talked to elena and ben (the LII) together and they both think I am FiSe NiTe. I don't think I am Fe POLR but I could be.
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I racked my brains to think of an alternative TIM if you were not LII and I thought of IEE because it makes some sense in terms of model A. I then watched your video and sort of dismissed the idea because I didn't think you looked like one. Understanding model a is the only real way to be sure though. If you narrow it down to 2 then you can focus on the big differences. LIIs and IEE deal with ti and fi very differently. You mentioned in your video that you are annoyed when people wont agree with you about the cup being orange. It seems you were talking about ti then (an agreement on reality) I think it's worth thinking about what you meant.
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I racked my brains to think of an alternative TIM if you were not LII and I thought of IEE because it makes some sense in terms of model A. I then watched your video and sort of dismissed the idea because I didn't think you looked like one. Understanding model a is the only real way to be sure though. If you narrow it down to 2 then you can focus on the big differences. LIIs and IEE deal with ti and fi very differently. You mentioned in your video that you are annoyed when people wont agree with you about the cup being orange. It seems you were talking about ti then (an agreement on reality) I think it's worth thinking about what you meant.
What I was talking about with the cup is something quite different. Its about people not being direct or answering a question directly. Its about them talking about a zillion things except the point. More like a problem with people not knowing how to use Te or Ni. This is a common problem I have with being frustrated with the SEI; cannot answer a questions directly. If you don't know, say you don't know because I have more interesting things to talk about then someones mental process of elimination. The end result is much more important.
If I ask someone "do you know where... is" and every single time say, yesterday I may have seen it downstairs somewhere.. even if it is a frequently used item.. Its just annoying when people are so unspecific. I try to be reasonable and I am because I don't show my annoyance here but this is one thing that gets on my nerves when I am trying to get something done. At work when you ask a question like "how many boxes?" and someone says, I don't know, like maybe 2.. If you don't know say "I don't know" I don't think this is a Ti thing, this is like a demand for Te, and there being no Te from that person.
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I am not an LII.
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Mudjumps and Olga, I am going to tell you which functions I relate to and which placement in Model A. Most I am not sure about.
I will say that Ti is one of my lowest scoring IM's and in people I don't necessarily love it. Please keep that in mind.
I am relating here specifically to the descriptions in wikisocion. If you have your own I wouldn't mind looking at them because the ones here seem a bit lacking and in some ways atleast slightly incorrect for some types. http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Introverted_intuition (http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Introverted_intuition)
I understand that these are random//they are just possiblities as I read this particular article.
Ne in sq 1, sq 3
Ni sq 1, sq 5,
Te suare 2, sq 5, 6,
Ti sq 4, 8
Se, 4, 5,
Si, 4, 5, 7th, 8th
Fe, 4, 8
Fi 2, 3
I'm sorry for such a tangled mess here. :/
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omg!! lol. warning this isnt censored https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC-e5vs6NeY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC-e5vs6NeY)
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What do you think about Ne in the ego block anyway? You have tried out nearly every possible Type of information metabolism which is pretty much what Ne is about.
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What do you think about Ne in the ego block anyway? You have tried out nearly every possible Type of information metabolism which is pretty much what Ne is about.
I think yes...? I don't exactly know how it manifests.
I really am thinking irrational.
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Well....Carina, it is a massive progression from ESI to ILE, congratulations! You come closer and closer to LII even though you believe you are not the one. The difference between ILE and LII is extraversion and irrationality. Take a good description of both dichotomies, post the link here in turn and give your arguments for being an irrational and extraverted type. BUT don't go into details here with colouring the text - NO! Do your homework on your computer and here just bullet point arguments - short and concrete. When you make your argument think about real life illustration of you day to day behaviour - don't write it yet. Only write if we ask you a question.
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I am not ILE or LII. I never said I was an ILE>
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I'm not going to continue this if you keep refusing to take me seriously. Thus far I have explained in every conversation that I am not an LII. I have told you many times that I am not going to entertain the idea any further.
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I guess experience counts quite a lot. If you practice typing soon you can see how people fit in without really thinking about model a or dichotomies.... Just the recurring patterns in how they look and behave and what you've seen before. To start with its hard because you don't even have 16 examples from real life to compare with. Maybe you can take a different angle by thinking about who you strongly relate to .... Celebrities friends or role models. If you could be someone else who would it be you could make a list....
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I guess experience counts quite a lot. If you practice typing soon you can see how people fit in without really thinking about model a or dichotomies.... Just the recurring patterns in how they look and behave and what you've seen before. To start with its hard because you don't even have 16 examples from real life to compare with. Maybe you can take a different angle by thinking about who you strongly relate to .... Celebrities friends or role models. If you could be someone else who would it be you could make a list....
I'll do that. :)
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I am not ILE or LII. I never said I was an ILE>
Sorry, my mistake. I saw your picture in the SI close to type ILE I thought but it was ILI in fact.